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#153198 - 08/26/07 05:24 AM working in shalow water
sefi sahar
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Registered: 11/29/06
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this question is adress to handlers and trainers that have experince operating dogs in mans work in shalow water areas:

we have amission we took to keep an area with alot of shalow water sources clear from humans in the next few months.

the area contain pools, bayous, swamps and estuarys when man can hide in, run in to or move inside the water.

training go fine and our dogs will gladlley will search and bite in the water and will swim if it gives tham the bite.

the problam ihave is when the water is shalow enough for the man to stand in and to deep for the dog to stand in - the man has clear advantage in that case and the dog is in high risk.

my question is what can we do to your experince to give our dogs (and mans) the best advantges we can.

we probably wont use hold and bark on this job

we allready agreed that we should minimize the distance bitween the dog and the handler as possible for the shorter fight untill the force arrive to the scene and we teaching our dogs to aim high.

what do you guys say?

any remark whould be well taken.
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#153203 - 08/26/07 06:37 AM Re: working in shalow water [Re: sefi sahar]
Michael West
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Registered: 05/23/07
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Sounds like you got it planed pretty well.

I would sudjest useing quick release leashes so that way you can send them out faster and you defently don't want the leash on the dog during a bite.

Like you said this is very high risk. The dog and or suspect could easly drown in shallow water.
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#153209 - 08/26/07 09:30 AM Re: working in shalow water [Re: Michael West]
Will Rambeau Moderator
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I mean this is the best way, and I'm absolutely serious about it - if you have *any* choice in the matter and you're dealing with water, shoot the perp.
It's the safest course of action.
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#153231 - 08/26/07 11:32 AM Re: working in shalow water [Re: Will Rambeau]
David C.Frost

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When training dogs to detect SCUBA divers, it was apparent quickly, the dog's element is not in the water. I'm not so concerned if the dog can keep his feet on the bottom, but once he's swimming, he really becomes pretty defenseless. He may bite, but it's not much to take them under water.

DFrost
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#153235 - 08/26/07 12:02 PM Re: working in shalow water [Re: Will Rambeau]
Howard Knauf

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Registered: 09/24/03
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 Originally Posted By: Will Rambeau
shoot the perp.
It's the safest course of action.


I agree. There's absolutely no reason to send a dog into the water unless a cop, or child is in danger of being killed by a bad guy. Even in those instances, the wrong person may get bit. Send in humans....or lead.

Howard
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#153268 - 08/26/07 04:41 PM Re: working in shalow water [Re: Howard Knauf]
Michael West
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Hm, i took his term of shallow water as shallow for the dog where he wouldn't be swimming.
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#153328 - 08/27/07 06:02 AM Re: working in shalow water [Re: Michael West]
sefi sahar
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Registered: 11/29/06
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the dog part is most and first to detect the man. if iknow where the man is iwill sure wont send the dog (on land or in water)
(iwill catch or shoot)

iwill sure wont send adog after asuspect iknow he is in the water.

the mission and the pharpass of the job is not to send the dog in to the water but one of the hazzards is the man will fall or run into the water or he may be hiding near or in the shalow water.

after ifolow and study the enemy behavior and way of op
isuspect that about 1 of 20 bites or finds could end up in shalow water and to that case ishould be preper the best ican.
after of course itry to avoid it the best ican.

sefi.s
israel

Edited by sefi sahar (08/27/07 06:06 AM)
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#153329 - 08/27/07 06:26 AM Re: working in shalow water [Re: sefi sahar]
sefi sahar
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Registered: 11/29/06
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the best routin we thouth about so far is when the dog will engage with water (probably you will hear the "splash")
the force will straith folow and the dog will be recall
than the handler and the force will have to decide after visuall search of the area if the dog will be sent again and how.

for instace if its to cross atunnel to search the other side iguess the dog will be resend but if the dog is eager to get in to apool or swamp the force will folow him by lead.

the hardest issues is to folow constatley the location of the dog during the free search (couse of the multy planted area)


and the scenario when adog is engage with aman inside the water.

after we discussed it abit last night one of the most important points we pot our finger at is the silent of the force requiere during the search (not abig probablam) and while the dog engage in afight (abigger problam) to locate the dog when he is not viewed.

iam now looking for agood mark spot light which could be locate on the dog and stay off and turn on by remote controll of the handler - maybe you guys know good one?

im sure you guys have more points and remarks and iwll love to hear tham.

Edited by sefi sahar (08/27/07 06:30 AM)
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#153331 - 08/27/07 06:47 AM Re: working in shalow water [Re: sefi sahar]
Johan Engelen
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Registered: 06/11/05
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What about GPS tracking of dog and handler?
Maybe to advanced and to prone to breakdowns?

My 0.02 €

Greetings

Johan
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#154073 - 09/01/07 11:07 AM Re: working in shalow water [Re: Johan Engelen]
sefi sahar
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Registered: 11/29/06
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Loc: israel

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thank you all for your advices
you sure help me clear up my thouths

Michael- iagree with you about the quike realse leashes we use easy realese leashes in most of our jobs.

Howard, David and Will iam sure agree with you guys about the dog abillities in the water your words make me stronger on the thouth that when the dog engage in shalow water we should minimize the time and distance with him before he will drawn to deeper water.
thank you,
by that you helped me to build the mission "combat doctrine".


Johan your 2 cent worth much more than 2 cents ithink its one of the things we need in that area.

after aread your post afew days ago we have study the issue and we are now chwcking two diffrent systems which may be suite for the job all thou we still need to make their packegge much more resistant.

we will still be needing the spot light thing but the gps transmiter can help alot couse it will show the handler and the force which way to look for the light.

iam just hope we can make both equitments light engouh for the dog to work with ESPECELLY in shalow water.

the thing is iread an srticle about theat eqitment and it past above my door knock mind - funny.

iguess somtimes we need some one to help us pot the finger on thing we need and is right in front of us and we cant see thank you.
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