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#185693 - 03/13/08 05:07 AM
Making Drive With A Puppy
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Mark Villasenor
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 35
Loc: High Sierras, California
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All:
I’m seeking general opinions and comments for training a Malamute pup (13 weeks as of this writing) the making drive game. Making drive is a totally new activity for me so please bear with my naiveté and handling awkwardness, if I misstate or am doing something incorrectly? (Hey, let me know, I can handle critical comments; that’s why I’m here.)
At present I’m mostly using a rag prey item (doubled over strips of clean cloth) tied to a four foot para-cord line, at the end of a yard length (3/4”) dowel pole. I’m using rapid movement (staying just out of reach) and am occasionally allowing the dog to bite and hold the rag, tug-o-war fashion, until the rag either rips or the dog loses grip. (I’m conscious of his little teeth, so pulling is kept in perspective.) Our training sessions last about three to four minutes, spread throughout the day, twice to three-times a day.
I periodically switch the prey item to real fowl feathers, but since the pup reacts much better to the flailing of cloth rags; he’s telling me something!
On a scale from 1 to 10 I’d say the pup is a 6 (possibly, probably, more), considering his age and the limited time I’ve been working with him. He’s got good grip (bite), is more often than not relentless (shakes his head on bite to attack the rag), and concludes each session wanting more. Consequently, I’m of the opinion he’s got good drive or at least the foundation upon which to build. (Albeit, again, if you think I’m in error please let me know?)
My strategy is to eventually (gradually) attempt to replace the rag with fuzzy natural squirrel tails (in time incorporated to a ball or tug), since both my Mals seem to be more attracted to movement of supple items. My end aim is to get the pup to bite something more substantial than a rag or animal tail, which obviously cannot support tension (weight) as the dog grows. A ball or tug would be great, but I agree ultimately which is the dog’s decision.
Comments, recommendations, training routine suggestions..?
_________________________
Happy Trails, Mark (& "The Boys") 
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#185751 - 03/13/08 11:44 AM
Re: Making Drive With A Puppy
[Re: Sandy Moore]
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Mark Villasenor
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 35
Loc: High Sierras, California
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”Sounds like you're on the right track. I really liked the leather rag that Leerburg sells... After burning through so many rags...”
Thanks, John, its reassuring to know I’m doing this right. Also the leather rag concept makes total sense; I too am burning through rags steadily. So I’m definitely going to check out the Leerburg leather rag. I presume its tough enough to be a permanent thing, if the dog doesn’t take to other items. (Again, his choice, not mine.)
”...sounds to me like he has good drive. Another idea for a bite item would be one of the smaller (puppy) tugs that Ed sells.
Sandy:
That’s reassuring too, thanks, as I’m probably not the best judge of drive for this particular discipline (but getting better at it). Matter of fact; I told an experienced drive handler in PM the other day that Merit was too new to rate on drive, when he is probably about a 2 or 3 on the ten-scale (we’re working on that). Oh well, live and learn.
Yeah, I’m on it with the smaller tug toys. I ordered the Leerburg Rubber Puppy Tug not long ago and it should be here shortly. I’ve got a feeling Mak is going to like this one, but we’ll see.
I acquired a small single-handle tug locally, but since it’s made from fire hose; it tends not to give as a softer toy does. Also the fire hose material is better suited for Merit (an adult); given puppy teeth considerations (the hose material is too tough for Makua, right now), and given the fact Merit won’t engage it... This hose tug is shelved for the time being and perhaps permanently.
I’ve got my eye on the Leerburg Thin Puppy Tug you suggested, although I’ll probably end up purchasing the single-handle Leerburg Mini Tug shortly (as well as a Leerburg Leather Bite Rag). After all at the rate this pup is growing, as puppies do...
Sort of like buying kids' shoes, isn’t it? 
Yes I intend to tow the tug (prey item) behind a soft/pliable rope (heftier than the para-cord), at distance, once we move into more predictable weather here in the mountains (likely late April or May). For the time being making drive is an indoor activity, but even so (unless the dogs really grow to like tug-o-war) I’ll probably stick with single-handle tugs -- presuming the boys engage them hearty enough.
_________________________
Happy Trails, Mark (& "The Boys")
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#185817 - 03/13/08 06:53 PM
Re: Making Drive With A Puppy
[Re: Sharon Empson]
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Mark Villasenor
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 35
Loc: High Sierras, California
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”Sounds like you are really enjoying your dogs. I am new to this too and want to learn. ... I have purchased Building Drive and Focus DVD and plan to watch it again before I use the pole again, to get some tips.
Do you have this video?”
Greetings Sharon:
I be enjoying dogs more than I have in a long time, believe me!
It’s a kick-in-the-pants to see some of Ed’s training philosophies (yes I have Ed’s/Bernard’s DVD) coming together, and having a results oriented personality adds to that. What I am most enthusiastic about are new doors the making drive game opens for my canine (non-profit) plans. (Long story, I won’t go there now. But you can read this thread to get some idea.)
My former search dog affiliations frowned upon techniques based on Schutzhund (silly I know), so I was never fully exposed to the effectiveness of methods like making drive. Consequently, my training philosophies (old-school comparatively) have taken a dynamic shift; and, I view that as a positive thing. So yeah, ya could say I’m excited (yet remain realistic) over future prospects.
And yes, I definitely suggest you watch the “Building Drive and Focus DVD” repeatedly. Each time I have thus far some subtle nuances are found that either increase my understanding, or confirms itself through application with the dogs: i.e., RESULTS!
Kinda like examining trees rather than the forest. 
”My dogs aren't shepherds, and what i have learned... has really helped me with my dogs.
You and me both, considering I’m working exclusively with the Malamutes (not my GSDs) on making drive (not the easiest dogs to train, by some standards). And frankly in the beginning I had my doubts as to how making drive would work on the Mals, but those concerns were very soon put to rest; again, by the results thus far.
(Do I sound like a happy camper?)
_________________________
Happy Trails, Mark (& "The Boys")
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#185882 - 03/14/08 11:02 AM
Re: Making Drive With A Puppy
[Re: Mark Villasenor]
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John J. Miller
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 268
Loc: Chicago, IL
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Yeah, I’m on it with the smaller tug toys. I ordered the Leerburg Rubber Puppy Tug not long ago and it should be here shortly. I’ve got a feeling Mak is going to like this one, but we’ll see. I acquired a small single-handle tug locally, but since it’s made from fire hose; it tends not to give as a softer toy does. Also the fire hose material is better suited for Merit (an adult); given puppy teeth considerations (the hose material is too tough for Makua, right now), and given the fact Merit won’t engage it... This hose tug is shelved for the time being and perhaps permanently. I’ve got my eye on the Leerburg Thin Puppy Tug you suggested, although I’ll probably end up purchasing the single-handle Leerburg Mini Tug shortly (as well as a Leerburg Leather Bite Rag). After all at the rate this pup is growing, as puppies do... Sort of like buying kids' shoes, isn’t it?
I went through a progression with prey toys. Started with the rag, graduated to the double handled soft tug, and then went to a larger harder tug for drive work and smaller harder jute tugs for obedience tugs. This was for my female, who will chase a ball but likes a tug much more. My male, could care less about a tug but will chase a ball 'til he drops and value it higher than a sleeve. Whatever the individual dog likes best.
_________________________
John 
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#185948 - 03/14/08 07:36 PM
Re: Making Drive With A Puppy
[Re: John J. Miller]
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Mark Villasenor
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 35
Loc: High Sierras, California
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”I went through a progression with prey toys.”
Thanks for picking up on that John, that’s where I’m headed too. Yet I’m ultimately resigned to let the dogs decide, although a little selection encouragement from dad could go along way.
_________________________
Happy Trails, Mark (& "The Boys")
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#186790 - 03/21/08 08:43 AM
Re: Making Drive With A Puppy
[Re: Mark Villasenor]
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Mark Villasenor
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 35
Loc: High Sierras, California
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UPDATE
Since about shortly after my last post on this topic I’ve been using the Leerburg Puppy Tug to engage Makua (the baby) in making drive, and the results are in. Boy; when Ed states on the video page that dogs love this toy, he’s being modest!
Put it this way...
When I have to HIDE a dog toy so my pup doesn’t catch a nut-roll when he sees it; that says plenty about the enthusiasm generated. So all-in-all I’m very pleased with how Makua is shaping up with making drive; all doubts as to whether or not a Malamute could be taught the making drive game are gone! Plus we’re both having a blast, which is a welcomed side-effect.
...Just thought I'd share. 
_________________________
Happy Trails, Mark (& "The Boys")
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