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#200231 - 06/28/08 08:26 AM
Small Dogs and Parks
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Siaty Mantak
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 49
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I just returned from an infuriating walk with my pup in downtown Toronto's Allen Gardens (a park) where many dog owners take their pets to the fenced in off-leashed dog section (I never go to that part). As I was walking my pup along the paths of the park (aside from the designated off-leash area, like all other parks in Toronto, dogs must be on-leash) a woman with a small white terrier-type dog was also coming up the path toward us. However, her dog was off-leash and as I maneuvered my pup to be on the other side of me (so that I was between the oncoming pair) her dog charged at my pup. I immediately stepped in between my pup and her dog and that was when her dog started growling and attempted to charge in to my pup.
I yelled "No" a few times at her dog and that was when the woman got angry at me and told me I did not have to yell at her dog and that I did not know the first thing about dogs. I yelled back telling her to put her dog on leash and that if her dog came at me again, I will crack her dog's head open. As I continued to walk with my pup her dog lunged again and ran into my foot since I stepped down to prevent it from grabbing my pup. At that point, this woman screamed at me: "don't you dare kick my dog!" I told her, "that's once, one more lunge and I will kick her head off."
This is not the first time my pup has been approached by other dogs especially since I live in a metropolitan city; however, it is the first time that the owner does not recognize or accept that I do not want to have anything to do with their pet and my pup does not need friends. Furthermore, it is also the first time that an owner insists that her dog's behaviour is "play" since it is so small and "cute."
I know I am doing a great deal of venting here; however, I would like to know if based on my description of the scenario, did I handle it appropriately and what could I have done differently? Somebody at the park told me I should have called the police, but then sort of conceded that the police probably would not have done much since I was with a GSD pup and that was a "small white dog that would not have been able to hurt a GSD." Also, anybody know what the laws are if, hypothetically, I were to kick her dog to the other end of the park had it attacked a second time?
Thanks,
SM
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#200233 - 06/28/08 09:03 AM
Re: Small Dogs and Parks
[Re: Siaty Mantak]
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Michele McAtee
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 02/05/06
Posts: 1059
Loc: Iowa City, Iowa
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I don't know about the laws in your area. However, reading your post, what jumped out at me was your yelling at the owner. I know it's hard, but yelling at the owner and threatening them that you will kick the dogs head off and crack his head open yadda, is IMO, asking for it and makes you look like the hot head.
What about keeping the confrontation between you and the dog? Obviously, the owner was not "present" or responsible. Manage the situation as necessary (even if it involves mace or a kick) and move on, why make it worse by trying to up the ante with the owner with verbal threats? You knew you were right, deal with it, and move on.
FWIW, I'd be pissed too, but does yelling at irresponsible owners help? Hell, talking calmly in true discussion with them doesn't help. :rolleyes:
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#200234 - 06/28/08 09:04 AM
Re: Small Dogs and Parks
[Re: Siaty Mantak]
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Mike Arnold
Registered: 07/09/04
Posts: 584
Loc: CNY
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Ahhhh... In my humble opinion, you demonstrated restraint.
If a dog does come at you and you - in a purely reactive and defensive move - happen to nudge the dog several feet, reach down and rip your pant leg. Even small dogs have teeth that tear fabric.
'Lady, please control your dog. I am in fear of your dog.' 'Lady, please control your dog. I am in fear of your dog.' 'Lady, I told you I was in fear of your dog.'
The hyperpole describing what you might do might be construed as a prior intent to do injury to her dog. Acting out of fear for your safety [and the safety of your dog] requires no description of the lengths you will go to protect yourself. Just an opinion.
Now, when acting out of a sense of fear, it is important to record just how far the dog was nudged. Usually such data is measured in feet, and height.
And, no. You can not kick the lady an equal distance. That would be assault.
I just felt like having a bit of fun with the response but in truth you are under no obligation to endure an attack - just don't engage in describing what you intend to do.
_________________________
Mike A.
"I wouldn't touch that dog, son. He don't take to pettin."
Hondo [played by John Wayne]
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#200240 - 06/28/08 12:24 PM
Re: Small Dogs and Parks
[Re: Sarah Morris]
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stephanie biros
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 152
Loc: Maine
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I feel bad for a dog who has such a stupid, irresponsible human. It sounds to me that you did everything right (with the exception of the threats.)
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#200241 - 06/28/08 12:29 PM
Re: Small Dogs and Parks
[Re: Siaty Mantak]
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Michael Eudy
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 28
Loc: California
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Saity, you know hine sight... i think you you did better than i would have. how old is your puppy. i ask because being attacked by other dogs can leave a lasting impression on a youngin. it has happened to me when my boy was 3-mo, and again at 5-mo. ed says young puppies will (almost always) be dog aggressive afterwards. i found him (my pup) to be extra alert when around other dogs after that. but i have walked him around other dogs on purpose to curb the possible problem. He will be two yrs on wed. and i must say that i think the plan worked as he is still aware of others until he has sized them up. he is of a breed that is larger and is normally aware of all surroundings anyway. but many loose dogs run up onto us on a regular basis, and i step between them and try and hold mine back as you did. i will tell you that wait until a giant schnauzer runs full speed towards you, i will tell you, four letter words to the owner will flow like a river.
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#200261 - 06/28/08 06:47 PM
Re: Small Dogs and Parks
[Re: Michael Eudy]
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Siaty Mantak
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 49
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Thank you everybody for your candour and great suggestions. To answer Michael's question, my pup is nearly 6 months old. She did not do anything the whole time - pretty much stood right behind me since I kept on stepping between her and the other dog. I do think in hindsight, as most everyone suggested, that I blew a fuse and should not have yelled at the woman so much with the words I used (e.g., "crack your dog's head open," etc.) - not the most responsible thing.
At the same time, I am a good sized guy (yes, I seem to have a girl's name), so the fear thing may have been a bit odd since the dog was probably about half the size of my pup. Nonetheless, should this happen again (which I am confident it will not) I will do that first. And if the other dog does lunge and grab my leg (hopefully my leg instead of my dog) I will propel it. Unfortunately, in Toronto, mace and pepper spray are illegal. Also, next time I see an approaching off-leash dog, I will try to get far off the trail regardless of the situation.
Still, this really just pisses me off to no end. Yes, I do not allow my pup to play with other dogs for the reason Ed points out - the likelihood of aggression (by another dog), which ultimately imprints on mine. I do allow my pup to play with a few people's REALLY old dogs. I actually should not even use the word "play" because these dogs are so old they just stand there and couldn't care less. My pup is realizing very fast the other dogs are just not very fun (at least not as fun as I am).
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#200285 - 06/29/08 12:26 PM
Re: Small Dogs and Parks
[Re: Siaty Mantak]
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leih merigian
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 179
Loc: Central Virginia
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Hi Saity,
We live in a rural area now, but I used to have the same problem with unleashed dogs approaching (and trying to attack, in some situations) my GSD when we lived in cities. Like you, I would protect my dog, period. It's always so infuriating to have the owners just stand wherever they are and watch without doing a thing. It especially made me nuts when we'd be walking down a sidewalk minding our own business, passing a yard where someone was out in their yard with their dog, who would then run at us from their yard to attack, and the stupid owner just stands there watching. Sheesh!
Anyway, since you can't use mace or pepper spray, you may want to try this (it worked pretty well for us). I'd always carry a LOT of biscuits in a very reachable pocket. As soon as any dog started to approach us that I didn't want near us, I'd take out a handful of biscuits and toss them towards the other dog, but to the side, away from us. When they're busy snarfing, you can exit stage left. If/when that doesn't work, you're back to kicking if you have to, but you do what you've gotta do to keep them away from your own dog.
good luck,
leih merigian
Central VA
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#200353 - 06/30/08 09:35 AM
Re: Small Dogs and Parks
[Re: Siaty Mantak]
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Angela Burrell
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 1263
Loc: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada
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At the same time, I am a good sized guy (yes, I seem to have a girl's name), so the fear thing may have been a bit odd since the dog was probably about half the size of my pup.
Not at all.
You need to act as though your anger is out of concern (for the other person's dog).
"What are you THINKING??? My dog can KILL your dog with one snap!! Would you let your toddler run up to a large strange dog? Then why would you let your small dog do it?? That is very dangerous!!!! Keep your dog on a leash and away from strange dogs! I do not wish to be approached by your dog. Keep him away from us! Do not let this happen again!"
(I have a 65-lb all muscle, dog-reactive dog - I can't believe how meny people allow their cocka-poos and malti-poos and chihuahuas to just run up to him ('it's OK, he's friendly')- it's all I can do to save their dogs life, which would not have been in danger in the first place if their dog was not yapping up in my dog's face.)
Edited by Angela Burrell (06/30/08 09:36 AM)
Edit Reason: add quotes :-)
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And this woman is the Assistant District Attorney...Sheesh!
