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#254870 - 10/17/09 09:03 AM Denver Dog Proven Not a Pitbull
Michelle Pociask
Leerburg Web Board User


Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 235
Loc: Indiana

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Happy ending for Dexter. Pitbull "evaluators" appear to be more full of "bull" than "pit". Warning-contains a pic of euthanized pitbulls. http://www.westword.com/2009-10-15/news/...a-short-leash/1
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#254872 - 10/17/09 11:33 AM Re: Denver Dog Proven Not a Pitbull [Re: Michelle Pociask]
James Biggs
Leerburg Web Board User


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 15

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good for dexter...

i dispise BSL. And the people who implented it. I cant stand them because if they would spend 2 hours learning about dog psychology, then there wouldnt be discrimination against particular breeds. its so obvious to a true dog lover.

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#254875 - 10/17/09 02:01 PM Re: Denver Dog Proven Not a Pitbull [Re: James Biggs]
Melissa Thom
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Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 1555
Loc: Upper Left hand corner, USA

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You need to be careful with statements like this. Animal control has an absolutely thankless but necessary job for the community. Yes you might disagree with Denver's laws but it doesn't mean that the AC crew doesn't have to enforce it.

This article was designed to stoke the already irate people on the matter, hence the photos of puppies and the tone of the article. The paper who writes this called the Westword is an alternative newspaper without all the balance and fact checking that would be found in oh say the Denver post who ran a similar story without the editorial commentary. http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_13535727

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#254882 - 10/17/09 03:42 PM Re: Denver Dog Proven Not a Pitbull [Re: Melissa Thom]
Cameron Feathers
Leerburg Web Board User
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Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 682
Loc: IN, US

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Balance and fact checking is one thing, but leaving out important details like the inability to name breed characteristics to back up claims like knowing a pit bull when you see one is another. The point of the article seemed (to me) to be finally drawing attention to the lack of real training done to educate the evaluators. I guess different people read the articles different ways
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#254886 - 10/17/09 05:17 PM Re: Denver Dog Proven Not a Pitbull [Re: Cameron Feathers]
Michelle Pociask
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Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 235
Loc: Indiana

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Exactly. I believe this situation needs "stoking". I don't think anti BSL has enough coverage considering the coverage the media is giving to the alleged "pitbulls" behind many of the viscious dog attacks. Those dogs in the picture aren't sleeping and they aren't all puppies. They are dogs people chose to give up because of the laws. 30% of dogs in animal shelters across the country are pitbulls and pitbullx because the breed has become known as vicious. Yes AC has an important job to do, but before you give someone the job of sentencing death to even one goshdarn dog train them adequately or bring in some experts who can do the job. You can't really blame the AC officers because let's face it with this economy one must be thankful to have a job. Uninformed, gasbag politicians are behind many of these laws. Frankly, I'm curious to how many are affiliated with the major paper of the city...

Edited by Michelle Pociask (10/17/09 05:22 PM)
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#254889 - 10/17/09 06:06 PM Re: Denver Dog Proven Not a Pitbull [Re: Melissa Thom]
James Biggs
Leerburg Web Board User


Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 15

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 Originally Posted By: Melissa Thom
You need to be careful with statements like this. Animal control has an absolutely thankless but necessary job for the community. Yes you might disagree with Denver's laws but it doesn't mean that the AC crew doesn't have to enforce it.

This article was designed to stoke the already irate people on the matter, hence the photos of puppies and the tone of the article. The paper who writes this called the Westword is an alternative newspaper without all the balance and fact checking that would be found in oh say the Denver post who ran a similar story without the editorial commentary. http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_13535727



i said the people who implemented it..not the people who are forced to enforce it


Edited by James Biggs (10/17/09 06:06 PM)

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#254897 - 10/17/09 09:56 PM Re: Denver Dog Proven Not a Pitbull [Re: James Biggs]
Cameron Feathers
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Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 682
Loc: IN, US

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Looking into the photo... I believe that may be one of the stock photos the shelter took to "prove" how many "illegal pit bulls" were put down in '05. That photo, if it is in fact one of the shelter photos, was used against the breed at one time.
With all the bad press these dogs have had, I think it only fair the the hype and stoking be ON their side for a change.
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#254903 - 10/17/09 10:26 PM Re: Denver Dog Proven Not a Pitbull [Re: Cameron Feathers]
Melissa Thom
Leerburg Web Board User
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Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 1555
Loc: Upper Left hand corner, USA

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 Originally Posted By: Cameron Feathers

With all the bad press these dogs have had, I think it only fair the the hype and stoking be ON their side for a change.


It's always ok to lie, manipulate, and exaggerate when it benefits your point of view right? Because two or a half dozen wrongs can always make a right? The issue I have and still have with the article is that it was an editorial sold as fact, which is wrong just as much as it's unfair that BSL exists to begin with. Personally I have issue with this kind of hysterics because it preys upon the same kinds of fear mongering that cause BSL to begin with, and should be called out as such.

That said there are many ways to pursue existing BSL. I just fail to see what is gained by jumping all over errors that were corrected by the existing system that exists to correct them. We can cry whine and snivel about the unfairness of life but the courts have ruled again and again after appeals that it's the right of cities to decide what breeds are and are not allowed in their city and owning whatever breed of dog you want isn't a right protected by law. Now I'm not involved in Colorado dog politics anymore but I've waited for four years to hear that dog owners have united to democratically regain their ability to own pits in the city. I wonder what's taking so long?

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#254907 - 10/18/09 12:06 PM Re: Denver Dog Proven Not a Pitbull [Re: Melissa Thom]
Michelle Pociask
Leerburg Web Board User


Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 235
Loc: Indiana

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I'm a bit confused as to what part of the editorial you are considering lies, manipulation and exaggeration? Did they not have a hearing? Did Dexter's owner not step up and spend the money to keep his dog from being euthanized? Did he not fight back against the labeling of his dog as a pitbull? Is there not a councilwoman named Carla Madison who hopes to draft an exemption to the law for Denver? Is there no comittee who asked Linda Hart to reflect on her experience and help create new legisltaion like she did for other cities? Has this not proven Denver's dangerous dog law weak? I'm also not seeing any hysterics here. Would you please point them out. Maybe you mean the photo insert? Somehow I'm just not seeing it. Maybe it's because I was never involved in any "Colorado dog politics" nor did I create or plan any of these laws. I must say I do have an issue with the constitutionality of not having the right to own any kind of domesticated dog especially if there are conflicting reports on the breeds personality. Moreover, when said authority is unable to identify their own legislativley ordained labels of "vicious" breeds. The Denver post did report the decision the courts made saving Dexter. This paper(the link from "Stop BSL") does appear to lean to the liberal side. I'm guessing The Denver Post leans a bit more to the left. News sources (especially reporters from a non mainstream paper) often differ their views of the same story http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/austan.goolsbee/website/PDFs/escene.06.12.mediabias.pdf
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#254929 - 10/18/09 05:56 PM Re: Denver Dog Proven Not a Pitbull [Re: Michelle Pociask]
Joy van Veen
Leerburg Web Board User
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Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 220
Loc: Arizona, Cochise County, USA

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I'm not going to focus here on whether "pit bulls" are or are not vicious. The articles were about identification of pit bulls, so that is where I will start.

Breed identification check sheets are inherently faulty. Training someone to identify a pitbull based on such characteristics as coat length, skin elasticity, etc.; is obviously flawed. But what is often overlooked, is that even those who are experts in breeds which are included under the label "pit bulls", often can't identify whether a mixed breed has or doesn't have pit bull in the mix; let alone to what degree. Only DNA testing is accurate enough, which would raise the cost of implimenting BSL to exhorbitant levels.

Now even assuming that no matter how many dogs may have been mis-identified as pits; lets assume that pits have not been mis-identified as other breeds. Assume no APBT has been labeled a Boxer for instance, so that there should be much less pit bulls in Denver today than 20 yrs ago. Has the 20 yr BSL in Denver reduced the numbers of dangerous dogs? Are there significantly less dog bites?

The rationale that banning pits would reduce dog bites has not proven true. So why continue to waste time and money on it. Why are other communities continuing to impliment new BSL when they could easily check the records in Denver to see how useless it is.

No, I am not blaming ACOs. They are just trying to do an impossible job the best they can. That they mis-identify breeds does not necessarily mean they have been lax in learning, just that there is no consistant way to identify mix breeds accurately as to breed, let alone degree of breed.
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Sunkmanitu kin Olowan (Joy) Van Veen

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