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#255010 - 10/19/09 09:32 PM
Thought this was under control; then we moved
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Becca Fuentes
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 45
Loc: Wyoming
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I have a large mix-breed rescue. He's about 80-90 lbs; I've had him for 4 years and he's about 6 years old. He's always been fear agressive/territorial with other dogs, especially when on leash. I had him to the point where he would ignore other dogs unless they were agressive and in his face. Then we moved in mid-July.
Our new house has no fence around the yard (we're saving for it) so I walk him every mornign and evening and tak hm our for a mid-day potty break. Anytime he sees another dog, on-leash, off-leash, behind a fence, anywhere, he bristles up his back,growls, sometimes pulls on his pinch collar and whines. Earlier tonight, someone's golden retriever ran across the street toward us. I didn't see it at first since it was dark, but I had a hard time controlling Sutter. This morning at the vets office, another person's dog approached us from behind. Sutter sniffed with him like dogs do and I though, "oh, good, maybe he doesn't see this dog as a threat" (If I had seen the dog approach, I would have warned the owner to keep his dog away). I turned around from discussing the shots needed and the dogs were sniffing, then it instantly turned into barking and snarling, with Sutter trying to drive the other, smaller dog out of the room.
I'm very frustrated because I thought I had this problem under control. Now it's worse than ever and he's not responding to the training I gave him before the move. It's like being in a new place has him on the offensive as soon as we step out of the house.
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#255017 - 10/19/09 11:13 PM
Re: Thought this was under control; then we moved
[Re: Becca Fuentes]
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Joy van Veen
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 220
Loc: Arizona, Cochise County, USA
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This is one of the troubles with temperament issues. Training can control the problem, but it will not actually change the temperament. Under new or stressful situations, the old behvior resurfaces. This is one of the things I don't like about TV program's like Cesar Milan's which imply they can "cure" a dog of aggression.
To regain control, I would use a combination of solutions.
First; look at whether you are percieved as the pack leader by your dog. Even if you think you are, reaffirm this through your attitude and expectations, and using non-confrontational messages to your dog. An example is taking space. Walk through the spot your dog is lying in and expect he will get out of your way. Don't be aggressive or threatening, but matter-of-fact. Ands DON'T hesitate or ask his permission. I believe there is a Leerburg video on this issue, though I hate to admit I haven't watched it.
Second; in a quiet, dog free place, work on your obediance. Up you demands and both expect and demand a higher level. Once you have reliable, immediate responses; and can get and keep your dog's attention on you, move on to my third suggestion while continuing ob.
Third; do de-sensitization along with obedience. I don't know what methods you've used to train with, but with a dog with aggression issues, using only positive methods and treats isn't enough. You must let him know that any aggression is not acceptable. But it is better to not let the issue reach that point. Work ob within sight but at a distance to another dog unknown to your dog. Decrease the distance gradually. At any time that your dog begins to react to the other dog (BEGINS, NOT LOSES IT. such as stiffening or looking a shade too long) turn and walk away. Then return to a point just a little distance beyond his reaction point, and work rapid commands, turns, etc. Your demands should be such that he has no time to dwel on thefact that another dog is nearby. Eventually, over many sessions, you will decrease the distance between you and strange dogs. If another person with a dog begins to come too close, immediately walk away as any aggressive response will make it that much longer for you to get control over your dogs aggression. If you use any treats, you must be very careful not to give a reward or mark while your dog is focused on another dog, or showing any other sign of aggression. If you are not positive you can determine when to treat or not, it is better to not treat at all in situations of aggression.
I hope this helps. And remember, even when the dog is no longer exhibiting aggression, it is still lurking under the surface. Stress may cause it to resurface if you don't keep up with training, or if you let the pack structure erode. Also, any major change will require a re-evaluation of pack structure, especially if your dog is the type to challenge for the lead if he percieves an opportunity.
_________________________
Sunkmanitu kin Olowan (Joy) Van Veen
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#255031 - 10/20/09 09:09 AM
Re: Thought this was under control; then we moved
[Re: Becca Fuentes]
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Becca Fuentes
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 45
Loc: Wyoming
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Thank you. I will try those, and reread Ed's article about being top dog in my own home. It's been such a busy and stressful summer, I've been forgetting my basics.
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#255033 - 10/20/09 09:17 AM
Re: Thought this was under control; then we moved
[Re: Becca Fuentes]
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Kristel Smart
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 10/03/06
Posts: 995
Loc: Vermont
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It's not uncommon for dogs to revert to old behaviours when under stress. Moving is very stressful for us, just imagine what it's like for a dog.
I would absolutely make sure that pack structure is in place and maintain and enforce your expectations as before your move. I would NOT put additional pressure on this dog by intensifying obedience, etc. as it will only add to his stress level and is unlikely to help. A stressed out dog is not learning. I'm not even sure that I would do much work on obedience at this point at all, other than what is normally used throughout the day (like standing for brushing, heeling when crossing roads, etc. or whatever you normally do).
Go back to square one in regard to the desensitization training (I'm assuming you did desensitization training?). It sounds discouraging, but it won't take nearly as long to see results as it did originally. Try not to get frustrated; just stay calm and support your dog through this process. The dog you are describing doesn't sound like he's one that will take advantage of opportunities to act up, but more like he's insecure and not feeling safe in his new environment. It is your job to make sure that other dogs stay far enough away from him that he feels comfortable, until he can work through this again.
I prefer positive desensitization, especially with a dog like yours that sounds insecure. I actually mark and reward for looking calmly at another dog to build a positive association with seeing other dogs. I say "nice dog" as a 'command', then click and treat, then walk away. I will repeat this a couple of times (depends on how well the dog is handling it) and call it a day, gradually moving closer over time, contingent upon the dog's comfort level. Eventually when you are out walking and see a dog coming closer, you can say "nice dog", then your dog can look at the other dog, then to you for a reward making it all very pleasant and positive. When I'm working on desensitization, I don't work on other things simultaneously because it's a difficult exercise for the dog all on it's own. I don't want to distract the dog from seeing other dogs, I want him to learn to be calm and okay while being very aware of their presence.
_________________________
 Sooperpuppy
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#255068 - 10/20/09 05:18 PM
Re: Thought this was under control; then we moved
[Re: Joy van Veen]
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Kristel Smart
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 10/03/06
Posts: 995
Loc: Vermont
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Rewarding for looking at another dog non-aggressively is fine.
The purpose here is to de-escalate a volatile situation. I've seen cases where a merely reactive dog actually becomes aggressive because the handler makes the situation even more negative. Corrections (which nobody is suggesting) and added pressure around other dogs reinforces the dog's negative perception.
As for working on ob with the desensitization; it is only one of many redirections that can be given.
I like to work on focus exercises like "look" and "heel" with these dogs, but not in the situation where dogs are actually present until a significant amount of desensitization work has been done, and the behaviors are learned well in less distracting circumstances. Only then would I put it together (ask for a 'look' or 'heel' past another dog). It's important that this ob work be very positive and fun, and sessions of short duration.
Having clear rules to follow when things get confusing or stressful, can be comforting to a dog.
I agree here, as long as it's about providing structure and not about 'cracking down'.
The third is that it will convince a dog that you are not in need of his protection and are a strong pack leader. Sometimes a dog shows aggression because he thinks his person is no longer capable of control and needs his protection.
I haven't ever seen a dog act aggressively because it feels it needs to protect the handler. Most of the aggressive dogs I've seen were insecure or fearful, and on the end of a leash. I've only ever met one dominant aggressive dog (I tend to think they are fairly rare) and his 'protection' was more about 'possession' and resource guarding around his human. I really don't see the desire to protect the handler as a concern.
...it is almost always better to have something "good" for the dog to do to replace the "bad" behavior he was doing; than simply to stop doing the "bad" behavior.
I agree here too, as long as the expectations are reasonable. Expecting an already stressed dog to run through obedience commands at his most anxious moment is unreasonable without a lot of work leading up to it. I've seen too many situations where unreasonable expectations set the dog up to fail, or to ignore a command, to be subsequently corrected and ultimately leading to a very ugly situation and an even bigger problem.
It's important to remember that it's more effective to change the emotion creating the behavior than to address the behavior only. It's not possible in every case, but it is in most of them. And if I'm going to make any mistakes, I'd rather be too soft than too hard to begin with, and make adjustment from there.
_________________________
Sooperpuppy
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