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#255889 - 11/01/09 09:04 AM
Re: What would you all tell this guy?
[Re: Elaine Haynes]
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Connie Sutherland
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 16729
Loc: North-Central coast of Califor...
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This is an ignorant (uneducated) person; you probably have to start with the basics. This is not the person who needs to be educated about breeding only to improve the breed -- this casual production of mixed-breed litters is more basic even than that.
http://www.dogstuff.info/to_breed_or_not.html
And those "Why NOT to Breed" points are about pure breeds. Mixed breed litters of large breeds like he describes: each pup has a 70% chance (or did in 2005, the latest national numbers I have seen) of eventually ending up in a shelter. I don't even know the numbers now, with the economy like this and people losing homes .... I know that our shelters here are heartbreakingly filled to bursting. And this guy wants to make a few more.....
Maybe add that virtually every single one of the millions of dogs who enter a shelter in this country every year (most never to find the way out to a permanent home; and for the mixed breeds among them, most, unless you exclude large breeds, will be euthanized) was born because of a human who either allowed an oops litter to happen or actively facilitated the breeding.
And before he gets ready for the miracle of birth (including still-birth, birth-defect birth, and vet-assisted birth), I hope he takes a minute to run in at the shelter for the miracle of death .... with larger breeds starring in the greatest numbers (by far).
P.S.
How about saying "Will everyone here who has anything to do with shelters or rescues and thinks it's a good idea to facilitate yet another large-breed mixed-breed litter (part of the results of which have a way-over-50/50 chance of eventually dying in a shelter) please raise your hands?"
Maybe add that even if every puppy was spoken for in advance, the chances of this casual large-mixed-breed breeding not resulting in at least some dogs who are PTS at some point in the back room of a shelter are approximately nill.
It's so hard for me to respond to this self-absorbed unconscious kind of thinking without swear words. 
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#255900 - 11/01/09 01:57 PM
Re: What would you all tell this guy?
[Re: Natalya Zahn]
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Connie Sutherland
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 16729
Loc: North-Central coast of Califor...
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.... even I didn't know the statistical likelihood of a mixed breed pup ending up dying in a shelter... that's sobering stuff anyone with a heart would take into account. ~Natalya
It's hard for people to work up these stats. Using the most conservative set I personally have read, over 50 percent of dogs and 69 percent of cats who enter animal shelters are PTS.
The ASPCA, who readily admit the difficulty of compiling stats with many of the shelters being not-state-run and/or not connected with the SPCA, and so on, state that about 5 million to 7 million companion animals (including cats) enter animal shelters in the US every year, and that approximately 3 million to 4 million are euthanized (60 percent of dogs and 70 percent of cats).
There are lots of problems with the numbers, such as the difficulty of reflecting recidivism numbers -- that is, some of those dogs in the grand totals of dogs entering shelters don't exist, because they entered the shelter(s) more than once. But that makes the bottom line (proportional PTS dogs) even worse, not better.
State Veterinarians (such as from Michigan's Department of Agriculture) often compile stats every decade or so, but I have found that the categories vary from state to state (not surprisingly), and that makes direct compilations of totals almost impossible without combining categories.
I want to add before someone else does that there are many people who say (probably correctly) that some of the published stats are beefed up by proponents of spay-neuter laws. They believe that these stats are used to beat up on breeders, and they are correct (IMO). (But there's a huge difference between responsible, ethical breeding and the breeding that we're talking about here.)
So Gary Patronek of Purdue and Andrew Rowan of Tufts, in their efforts to produce uninflated numbers, compiled stats from the pet industry, the AKC, the AVMA, the HSUS, and other sources. They came up with 4 million dogs entering shelters annually, with 2.1 million of them PTS. (So you see that the numbers are terrible, whether they come from publishers who might prefer to present a horrifying picture or the complete opposite.)
Anyway, I admit the huge difficulties with coming up with these types of stats, but I didn't make 'em up. The thing that strikes me over and over is "as above, so below." That is, I don't see big variations in the proportionate numbers that national agencies report and the ones that we can read about from our own counties (if our counties are not so small that the majority of unwanted/surrendered/picked up end up going to facilities outside the county).
The numbers are staggering, in other words, no matter where we get them.
Edited by Connie Sutherland (11/01/09 02:34 PM)
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#255913 - 11/01/09 06:20 PM
Re: What would you all tell this guy?
[Re: Connie Sutherland]
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ann freier
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 11/20/05
Posts: 638
Loc: NE Nebraska
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i would tell him to go ahead and shoot all/any dogs involved, then himself.
how stupid can ppl get (don't answer that, i know). i just hope this person doesn't breed him/herself.
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#255940 - 11/02/09 12:19 AM
Re: What would you all tell this guy?
[Re: ann freier]
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Elaine Haynes
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 522
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i would tell him to go ahead and shoot all/any dogs involved, then himself.
how stupid can ppl get (don't answer that, i know). i just hope this person doesn't breed him/herself.
Unfortunately he has 6 kids.
I totally agree with everyone here and you all have basically said just what everyone on the other forum said. I think the only hope is that he's some kind of troll just trying to stir people up.
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