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#256085 - 11/03/09 06:57 PM
Help with the Puppy and our 2 year old
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Danity Siebenale
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 09/05/09
Posts: 40
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Hello!
We have a 5 month old plush long-haired GSD named Kazak. He's a little cutie but very much in a stage I compare to my son's terrible two's. Stubborn and destructive.
Unfortunately, we have an issue with Kaz thinking that my 2 year old son is a chew toy. I know much of it is due to his herding instinct and prey drive. However, those little teeth are razor sharp and my son's skin is soft and thin....the dog has drawn blood. Little guy is starting to be afraid of the dog and getting the dog to understand that little man is off limits doesn't seem to be sinking in.
We have been following Ed Frawley's methods in his 8 weeks to 8 months video. We crate train, keep him on a leash or drag line indoors, use food reward (as he has high food drive) and keep his chew toys handy to give him when he tries to use our son as a chew toy. We are considering getting an e-collar to train in just this one area because the dog needs to understand that our son is off limits and to keep our son from being completely fearful of Kaz.
Any other advice? Tethering (to me), praise, treats, and redirection just do not work when it comes to Kaz and DS. I understand much of it is probably prey drive and herding instinct but this is the one area where Kaz needs to learn and learn quick that DS is off limits, period.
TIA!
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#256086 - 11/03/09 07:09 PM
Re: Help with the Puppy and our 2 year old
[Re: Danity Siebenale]
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Connie Sutherland
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 16731
Loc: North-Central coast of Califor...
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Something is missing ....
How is the dog getting those teeth onto the baby if he is tethered, crated, leashed, etc.?
"Any other advice? Tethering (to me), praise, treats, and redirection just do not work when it comes to Kaz and DS."
How can it not? I know we can help. I'm just not seeing the clear picture. Tethering and crating are tools for managing the dog's environment -- setting up the dog for success. What am I not seeing? Can you describe a situation where the dog mouths/chews on the baby? Details, please.
P.S. As great as e-collars can be, this is not one of its apps. That's just my own opinion, of course.
Edited by Connie Sutherland (11/03/09 07:11 PM)
Edit Reason: ps
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#256089 - 11/03/09 07:27 PM
Re: Help with the Puppy and our 2 year old
[Re: Connie Sutherland]
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Danity Siebenale
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 09/05/09
Posts: 40
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The dog is crated if I can't keep my eyes directly on him. He is leashed (6ft) while in doors with me. I keep chew toys handy to redirect should DS go running by or want to play near Kaz.
However, Kaz has been increasingly klutzy and getting the leash tangled around his feet when tethered to us or the front door. So we tried using it more as a drag line (it's a light 1/2 inch nylon). That's when he started wanting to jump up on, herd, nip at, etc. our son. Even tugging him off DS using the the leash with a firm no and redirection he continues to try to jump up again. So Kaz ends up being put back in the crate to separate them so Kaz can chill and I can comfort DS.
DS is very good about drawing standing still and drawing his hands to his chest when Kaz gets that way, but the nipping teeth are still sharp and hurt DS.
However, with me being a student and working nights, Kaz spends quite a bit of time in the crate already, so I really try to keep him out whenever we are home using the tether and drag methods. DH is military and can work crazy hours, as well as being gone for training, deployments, etc.
We excercise him outside playing fetch (he does great with this) and do training indoors with the basic commands of sit, down, stay which he does fairly well with. However, he's more resisitant to "off" and "leave it". We also try to get a good walk in around the neighborhood after dinner...if not we go back out and play in the back yard again.
We have the "Puppy 8 weeks to 8 months" and are doing our best to follow the guidelines given by Ed in training our pup. Like I said he does really well except when it comes to DS.
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#256092 - 11/03/09 07:46 PM
Re: Help with the Puppy and our 2 year old
[Re: Anne Jones]
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Danity Siebenale
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 09/05/09
Posts: 40
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Anne:
That was super helpful!
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#256098 - 11/03/09 08:10 PM
Re: Help with the Puppy and our 2 year old
[Re: Dennis Jones]
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Danity Siebenale
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 09/05/09
Posts: 40
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Thanks, Dennis.
the moment he starts acting stupid, the dog not the boy, <-- that made me laugh because DS can certainly be silly!
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#256108 - 11/03/09 08:56 PM
Re: Help with the Puppy and our 2 year old
[Re: Anne Jones]
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Lois Miller
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 54
Loc: Northeastern Ohio
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Your son should not have to be afraid in his own home from ANYTHING. Certainly not your pet. If you can't seem to manage your son & pup out at the some time, them maybe they shouldn't be out together. If you schedule doesn't allow you proper time for the pup to train it properly & keep your son safe, maybe you should consider re-homing the pup, while he is still young. And maybe getting a dog later when your schedule will better allow you the time needed to manage training a pup & raising a young child. Both are very time consuming. If you don't get the situation under control while the pup is still young it will get unmanagable by the time the pup is a year old. I know that everyone wants to have their child raised with pets, but sometimes it is not someting that will work.
Years ago, I was a single parent working full time & going to College at night. My son desperately wanted a dog, but there was no way that I had the time,energy or $$$ to do that. It was something that he never forgave me for to this day. Although he undstood why on one level, he still resented the fact that most of his friends had dogs & he couldn't. Sometimes, life is just not fair. And parenthood is not a populatiry contest.
I have gotten some great advice and support from this site, but this is a really harsh response that just doesnt seem called for.
Your quote highlighted above is probably the reason that she came here asking for advice and help! It sure seems that you could be much more helpful to the OP by sharing your vast wisdom and knowledge then by making her feel badly for being in the situation she is in.
To the OP, I dont have any specific advice but commend you for reaching out and asking people for help with this problem. Im sure you will get a ton of great suggestions, I always do.
Stick around.
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#256109 - 11/03/09 09:10 PM
Re: Help with the Puppy and our 2 year old
[Re: Anne Jones]
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Connie Sutherland
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 16731
Loc: North-Central coast of Califor...
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I would not put an e-collar on a pup for any reason. Especially to correct the pup for a behavior that should not be happening at all. It is your error, not the pups that this is happening.
Danity, whether you like the delivery or not, this is the fact: this should not be allowed to happen. 
This is why I asked so many times for details. You have to keep them separated enough so that this cannot happen. Just can't happen.
Your hands on the end of the tether or line are the don't-let-it-happen tools.
It would be great if there was a magic solution for this (like an e-collar), but there isn't. The solution is the parent's eyes and hands and very close presence. The puppy is doing what puppies do.
Lois, this may have sounded harsh to you. But when it comes to babies and dogs, straight answers are all that matters, IMHO. There's room for error almost everywhere else. In this area, there isn't.
As Dennis said: "keep the two seperated when unsupervised, when together the moment he starts acting stupid, the dog not the boy, mild correction and redirection."
The baby should not feel afraid in his own home by a member of his own household.
QUOTE: However, Kaz has been increasingly klutzy and getting the leash tangled around his feet when tethered to us or the front door. So we tried using it more as a drag line (it's a light 1/2 inch nylon). That's when he started wanting to jump up on, herd, nip at, etc. our son. Even tugging him off DS using the the leash with a firm no and redirection he continues to try to jump up again. So Kaz ends up being put back in the crate to separate them so Kaz can chill and I can comfort DS. END
Using it as a drag line is not working. Back to tethering.
Truly, whether it sounds harsh or not, the fact is that the puppy is scaring and hurting the baby. They need to be separated unless a parent is on the end of the tether, and jumping up isn't corrected -- it's just not allowed.
I know that we can give more day-to-day details if needed (like old-style wooden playpens, for example, and ex-pens --- all with the constant presence of the parent, of course), and I hope that Danity will ask. Because I agree that now is the time to get the routine firmly in place.
Again, no one is trying to be harsh. This is not a topic to tippy-toe around.
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