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#256157 - 11/04/09 11:07 AM
dog too motivated by treats
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Cassy Cooper
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 7
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I have a 6 mos old GSMD that I got from someone who had done no training with him. Did not even know how to sit. I am working hard on the pack behaviors and am trying to train him. I have tried on several different occasions to use different types of treats down to plain kibble. No matter what I use he can NOT focus on what I want he is just crazy to get the treat. I tried training after feeding him it doesn't matter, he can not pay any attention to me and can't even do commands he does no problem when I have no treats. He can't take his eye off my hand or my pocket. Any suggestions
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6 Mos old Greater Swiss Mountain Dog
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#256167 - 11/04/09 01:22 PM
Re: dog too motivated by treats
[Re: Lynne Barrows]
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Cassy Cooper
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 7
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That was a great article. I have been trying to read all the pertinent stuff on the website and will have a couple of videos tomorrow. I sure appreciate the input. I have read so much and am starting from sq 1 with this guy that I almost feel like a dog overwhelmed by too much info and training. LOL. I am very thankful for the input and will start today on the yes training. that should make him find today a happy day. He gets treats without doing anything.
I do have quite a bit of experience with dominant breeds and I have raised two purebred wolves from pups. I had them early though and they didn't learn to be stubborn and obstinate. They were never given any choice early on. Great animals. One was Mackenzie River Wolf crossed with an Arctic Wolf. He was a sweetheart and we lost him a couple of months ago after 13 and a half wonderful years.
Thank you again Lynne
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6 Mos old Greater Swiss Mountain Dog
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#256171 - 11/04/09 02:10 PM
Re: dog too motivated by treats
[Re: Lynne Barrows]
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Connie Sutherland
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 16720
Loc: North-Central coast of Califor...
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Cassy, are you using marker training(clicker-type training)? If not, check out the free e-book here to get you started, and the DVD's that you can buy. Marker Training e-Book, Free! Marker Training DVDGet a treat bag and put it behind your back so that the pup can't see it. Like This OneA good command to teach focus is 'watch me'.
It's an easy one to teach using marker training, and will get the pup looking at your face.
Read through the marker training e-book and ask more questions if something's not clear...
All this, and also maybe try starting a session for a while right after his dinner. This takes my pigs' food lust down from a 100-level to maybe 97. (This is obviously individual; less foody dogs can do much better if it's just before mealtime.)
Also, about his demeanor change when he knows there's food, you will find when you follow Lynne's URLs that you may be using the reward as a bribe or lure when you mean to be using it as a reward. (How does he know when there is food?)
Don't get overwhelmed!  You are going to find that marker training is the best.
So step 1: Load the marker.
You will find that beginning marker work goes best with food rewards because of many factors, including the relative ease of having a supply of tiny food rewards unseen by the dog, the speed with which it can be produced, and the immediacy of the food reward when you are doing many small repetitions, along with the interruption that the toy triggers (but that will be perfect later when you you are marking/rewarding for a more longish asked-for behavior, or stringing together links in the chain of an asked-for behavior. [I'm trying to avoid jargon. How'm I doing?  ]) . Later on, of course, you'll learn yor dog's currency and you'll use that knowledge. 
http://leerburg.com/markers.htm
Scroll down to The first step is called CHARGING THE MARK. But you'll want to read the whole article, too.
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#256176 - 11/04/09 03:34 PM
Re: dog too motivated by treats
[Re: Connie Sutherland]
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Melissa Thom
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 1555
Loc: Upper Left hand corner, USA
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I got my lab at 9 months old with zero manners, no training, and a bottomless pit stomach. Add in her drive level and in most places she would have been PTS rather than deal with her insanity. She was more than willing to climb you for a kibble, bite your hand when you tried to give it to her and generally speaking was so frantic to get whatever you had inside her mouth that the behavior was entirely lost on her.
So I tied her to a post in the beginning for our training session on a 5 foot cable tie. I then showed her that I had food... about 5-10 minutes later of her climbing the wall and backflipping, when she stopped struggling towards forcing her way to the treat and gives me the what do I need to do to get that treat look I marked that behavior and rolled her the food. Repeat. Basically I'm setting her up where she will eventually do the behavior I want which I can mark and that acting like an absolute idiot will not get her the reward or closer to a reward.
Things have happily gotten alot better since those initial days of bear training.
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#256185 - 11/04/09 05:07 PM
Re: dog too motivated by treats
[Re: Melissa Thom]
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Cassy Cooper
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 7
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I really appreciate the input. This is very helpful. That is pretty much where he is, trying to climb you to get the treat. I am working on the pack behavior too so am keeping him on leash all the time. I had the pleasure of learning something new the other night. I had him on a leather leash at my feet and he had his toy across his paws. (toy he loves to chew on) He was happily chewing away for a good hour and I was happy to look down and see him happily chewing away. I went to get up and picked up the handle of the leash and that was all there was. The handle and about 2 in hanging from his neck he couldn't reach. He ATE the entire 10 ft leash. I am going to start calling him jaws. The tying him up to calm him down sounds like a good start. He just can't even think straight when he knows you have a treat. Glad to hear some others having some of the same issues with good results because he really is a sweet dog when there is nothing edible around. I know he will be a great dog when I can get some quality time in.
Also my husband is away in Alaska crab fishing and will be home in 2 weeks was hoping to have some manners in him by then.
THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART.....
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6 Mos old Greater Swiss Mountain Dog
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#256223 - 11/05/09 01:41 PM
Re: dog too motivated by treats
[Re: Bob Scott]
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Cassy Cooper
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 7
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Yes I think that is a good idea. I was going to try that shell game concentration thing with him too.
I sure appreciate all the input. I have had no problems with training dogs before. All of mine have always had good manners. He is a new challenge.
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6 Mos old Greater Swiss Mountain Dog
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