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#253563 - 09/25/09 09:37 PM Re: My leashed dog killed a small unleashed dog [Re: Mike Arnold]
Sheila Buckley
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Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 597

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 Originally Posted By: Mike Arnold
Occasionally, we react and respond to a post because it tweaks a part of our dog world that falls under the heading of 'there but for the grace...' We recognize the fragile reality of what is and what could be - in a heartbeat.


This describes me exactly. The OP's dog sounds better trained than my own and to be honest I'm clueless to how to train to a distraction I can't set up. Another dog in his space posturing aggressively, I've never practiced or trained that situation so I guess I'd have a 50/50 chance of success. How do I improve on that?

We have had encounters with off leash dogs and what works for me is to "Plow" this command developed on its own out of necessity to avoid being dragged into a rucous. Plowing consists of me reeling Thor in close to my side and with a straight back and determined pace walking straight ahead past or through the oncoming juggernauts. My dog can't react when he is moving along at a rapid pace. We are like Moses the oncoming dogs part like the Red Sea. For the most part these dogs are trying to greet and sniff but on occassion there will be an aggressive display but the forward motion seems to keep my dog focused and takes the others off guard.

The two things that worsen the situation are stopping or letting my dog look back after we pass because the eye contact seems to prolong the encounter. A "PLOW" well done is usually accomplished in 20 seconds. \:\)

I was pretty confident but after this post I'm not so sure...what else or how else can I build my control? BTW my dog is obedient just not well trained; if that makes sense, in other words pack structure is ok he just doesn't know a lot of fancy tricks.


Edited by Sheila Buckley (09/25/09 09:40 PM)
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#253564 - 09/25/09 09:40 PM Re: My leashed dog killed a small unleashed dog [Re: Sheila Buckley]
Connie Sutherland Moderator
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Registered: 07/13/05
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Loc: North-Central coast of Califor...

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 Originally Posted By: Sheila Buckley
...my dog is obedient just not well trained; if that makes sense, in other words pack structure is ok he just doesn't know a lot of fancy tricks.


That's much better than the other way around.

I'd work on pack structure. \:\)

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#253639 - 09/27/09 01:21 PM Re: My leashed dog killed a small unleashed dog [Re: Connie Sutherland]
Sheila Buckley
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 Originally Posted By: Connie Sutherland
I'd work on pack structure. \:\)


Oh so true!! If I ever needed proof of the importance of pack structure it is the dog I have now who after 4 months of serious illness and lots of medication; is so unruly because HIS wish has been my command and I pretty much have cut him so much slack he's like an untrained adolescent (isn't that a joy). Tomorrow will mark 1 week medication free with good health so back to reality.

I think you make a great point. The training is very important but in a high charged unpredictable moment respect for your leadership ups your chances of a good outcome.
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#253966 - 10/01/09 01:52 AM Re: My leashed dog killed a small unleashed dog [Re: Sheila Buckley]
Kimberley Voyles
Leerburg Web Board User


Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 44

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I wanted to thank everybody again for all the feed back. As I was reading the comments I had many more thoughts to contribute, but did not want to seem that I was looking for specifics to redirect my responsibilities in the situation. (like a friend of mine who is an attorney said, "what did the dog running at you have a big sign around his neck that said, "I just want to play", regarding the comments made on personal space, intent of the unleashed dog, and the animal control officer said that dogs think their territory is basically the area they are walked in, where they leave their scent)

I have worked with my dogs to "stay with distractions" using something he wanted very badly, the moving dot of a laser light. I never thought of it as "stay with distractions" before. Though it is not a small barking animal.

Also, there was mention of "what if that was a kid", this situation has taught me that nothing is 100%. But I have worked with Cerberus and taught him how to be "gentle". I have used this command around anything small, kids, other dogs, anytime he is excited. "Be gentle" means to move slow, calm down, be careful. (this was due to his size, not because of any aggression) I taught him to be gentle with his squeeky toys. He would get one and rip the squeeky out of it. Well that gets expensive. I would only give it to him when I could watch him, when he was making it squeek slow and careful, I told him "gentle" and praise him.

Thank you all.
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#254216 - 10/04/09 06:57 PM Re: My leashed dog killed a small unleashed dog [Re: Kimberley Voyles]
William Miller
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Registered: 06/27/09
Posts: 9

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The first part of this reply deals with my opinion and the second asks some questions.

The answers on this particular subject all seem to be coming from very experienced owners.

Virtually all say that the owner did not have 100% control. Sounds good in theory.

However, how does the average person possibly train their dog to remain calm in this extreme distraction situation? Not only is the situation extreme but the other dog was running toward the pit bull. Does the pit bull have the right to protect itself?

What exactly does "100% control" mean? What was the woman supposed to do? Say "Sit"?



I don't think the average dog owner has the facilities to train a dog to remain calm in this situation.

If this 100% control is true then it would seem virtually every dog needs to go to extreme distraction training school.

I see this situation every day. Two dogs passing each other on the street and both start growling at each other and the owners holding on for dear life.

The reason I am sympathetic to the owner's situation is because I just adapted a 4 year old 88 pound male rescue GSD. He shows not actions that would classify him as aggressive or dominant; perhaps just the opposite.

However, when we go for a walk and start to pass another dog on the other side of the street he becomes very interested and start to pull on the leash but does not bark. However, the minute the other dog barks, all hell breaks loose. His fur goes up, he crosses in front of me and wants to get to the other dog.

If a 4 pound dog does this it is considered cute. However, Max's size scares people.

Is this just natural instinct?

I have had this dog with 25 other dogs at a picnic with no problems.

QUESTIONS:
1. Is this a problem that I can solve myself?
2. Is there a particular DVD that deals with the behavior?
3. Most of the things I have seen on leash train are very basic. None seem to deal with the more difficult issues?

Thanks.

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#254218 - 10/04/09 07:01 PM Re: My leashed dog killed a small unleashed dog [Re: William Miller]
Connie Sutherland Moderator
Leerburg Web Board User
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Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 16729
Loc: North-Central coast of Califor...

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Hi, William,

You need to start a new thread with a new title. Thanks. ;\)

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#254219 - 10/04/09 07:03 PM Re: My leashed dog killed a small unleashed dog [Re: William Miller]
Dennis Jones

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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 2321
Loc: Richmond Va

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Hi William! might want to try the search feature and I think you got enough material to start another topic.

quick answers
yes
yes
don't understand the question
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#256378 - 11/07/09 08:38 PM Re: My leashed dog killed a small unleashed dog [Re: Dennis Jones]
Kimberley Voyles
Leerburg Web Board User


Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 44

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I wanted to post the outcome of my hearings in the public nuisance they were trying to make my dogs. The incident with the unleashed dog was tossed out for a few reasons, one being that since the dog was unleashed, he was not legally using the public property and was preventing me from legally using the public property. The other reason was that there was no evidence that my dog attacked first, only that he was involved in a fight with the other dog.

The hearing officer's last question to me was "What actions did you take prior to getting the "Notice of Intent to Declare a Public Nuisance" and what actions did I take after getting it."

I enrolled the dogs and myself into professional obedience classes, stopped using a harness and started using a prong collar, no longer walked the dogs more then one at a time, I do not walk Cerberus, when he is walked he wears a muzzle. The only thing I did after getting the "Notice of Intent" was to build an outside enclosure, check on insurance.

That made my case unique. Most people come in to the hearing denying that their dog did anything to contribute to the situation. I had already done everything and more then they required. (minus the extra licensing stuff)

The only thing they wanted me to do that I had not already been doing is to put a muzzle on Thora.

Thank you all again for your input and helping me realize my part in the incident so I could fix it.
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#256381 - 11/07/09 08:45 PM Re: My leashed dog killed a small unleashed dog [Re: Kimberley Voyles]
steve strom
Leerburg Web Board User
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Registered: 03/17/06
Posts: 2266
Loc: Bay Area, Ca.

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I think you handled things very well.
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#256384 - 11/07/09 09:21 PM Re: My leashed dog killed a small unleashed dog [Re: steve strom]
Debbie High

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Registered: 01/03/03
Posts: 744

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Good for you Kimberly. Wish I could shake your hand!
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