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#256506 - 11/10/09 10:44 AM
barking
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Lisa Harvey
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 52
Loc: Illinois
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Yesterday my daughter (freshman in high school) came home with two friends. Keira our 6 month old GSD was by my side as I worked on the computer. When she heard my daughter AND other voices (doesn't bark when it's just my daughter), she started to run to the foyer and bark. I knelt down and grabbed her gently and said, "That's enough! No more barking. I know Alex has two friends with her. Thank you for telling me, but now I need you to stop barking. No more barking." She fought it for a while and then gave in. I then put her in her crate.
I completely understand this situation and don't really mind as long as she stops when I tell her to. But it does seem she is barking more and more these days to let us know she hears something or something is not right or someone is at the door or she sees someone walking by the house. She will even do this on walks with unusual circumstance - lawn guy working on a neighbor's yard or cleaning lady getting her supplies from the car.
#!) I've read in other posts that the best way to teach them to stop barking is to teach them to 'speak/bark'. How do you do that? She is a family companion - no real goal of making her our protection dog, but do like the idea she would warn us of things she felt were off.
Different issue (but possibly related?), she has also started to bark at other dogs on walks. She doesn't seem angry, just noting they are there. I am not engaging with the other dogs or their owners. Read other posts and really like the word "neutralizing" better than socializing - helped me understand better.
I've started taking LOTS of treats and bringing them out the minute I see another dog coming our way - switch sides of the street and hurry by enticing with "cookies" or rope bone or BOTH! Today she clearly saw three dogs, became very alert but didn't necessarily bark because I had all kinds of "cookies" and let her run around, get a little excited and jump on me, which I don't normally let her do on walks. On this one, I'm not really correcting as much as trying to distract her enough to move on with our walk.
#2) This won't encourage goofy behavior when we have the sidewalks to ourselves, will it?
#3) Is this barking (either scenario - alerting us to noises/people OR against other dogs) part of a learning phase of discovering she has a voice and using it all the time? Or something else like feeling threatened or fearful?
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#256508 - 11/10/09 10:55 AM
Re: barking
[Re: Lisa Harvey]
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Connie Sutherland
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 16618
Loc: North-Central coast of Califor...
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"That's enough! No more barking. I know Alex has two friends with her. Thank you for telling me, but now I need you to stop barking. No more barking."
That kind of starts a game with the barking dog. She understands none of the words, but she does get it that she barked and that brought her a ton of desired attention and interaction with you.
Bark/no bark is something I always think "Careful what you ask for." Are you sure you want to teach a self-rewarding behavior? Not saying you don't, but you should think about it. 
I like what you are doing on walks to make other dogs less distracting.
I know that others will have good suggestions too; it's a very frequent subject. 
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#256510 - 11/10/09 11:24 AM
Re: barking
[Re: Connie Sutherland]
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Lisa Harvey
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 52
Loc: Illinois
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I get that it was too many words. I did have that feeling as I was saying it all yesterday. 'No bark' should be sufficient - got it - why do the very basic things escape me in a panic moment!!
Self-rewarding behavior? vs 'No'?....don't know if I get what the options are?
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#256511 - 11/10/09 11:35 AM
Re: barking
[Re: Lisa Harvey]
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Connie Sutherland
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 16618
Loc: North-Central coast of Califor...
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... Self-rewarding behavior? vs 'No'?....don't know if I get what the options are?
You mentioned teaching bark/no-bark and I was saying that to many (maybe most) dogs, "bark" is a self-rewarding behavior, and teaching bark can be a whole lot easier than teaching no-bark.
I used to think that it was good to teach bark if you wanted to teach no-bark, but now I think that a few behaviors that are self-rewarding (not about to extinguish for lack of external reward) don't respond as readily to "bark/no-bark" as I once thought, and so now I am careful to point this out.
I think that you will get other responses, too. And of course, much depends on your plans for the dog.
I wanted my dogs (the ones who do bark) to do a bark when someone approaches but to stop immediately when I come and check and say it's OK. It worked, and I do pretty much have this, but I'm here to tell you that I can't calculate the zillions of hours this took (and still does, now and then) to keep it from turning into "Yay! Let's all bark louder and louder! Forever! Me first! And if all goes well, our pack leader will come and join in with that human yell-bark! Wahoo!"
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#256514 - 11/10/09 12:04 PM
Re: barking
[Re: Connie Sutherland]
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Lisa Harvey
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 52
Loc: Illinois
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Keira is a family dog - no real goal of her being our protection dog (except for the perceived protection that many people might assume she has being a GSD) and no training other than obedience. I have the same desire of her barking to alert us and then stopping immediately as I come and see that it's okay.
You raise an interesting point. Certainly don't want to create a mushrooming problem. My golden doesn't seem to bark much and responds most of the time with, "Okay... enough!" Keira, on the other hand, seems very tuned in to so many noises/people.
So for yesterday's situation, would you have suggested I did what I did (minus the extraneous wording)? "No barking" and then reward when she's quiet, which I didn't do. I put her in the crate simply because the kids were going to be in the kitchen. What else could I do? How do you "practice" or "train" this for future use?
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#256550 - 11/11/09 12:50 PM
Re: barking
[Re: Jennifer Lee]
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Lisa Harvey
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 52
Loc: Illinois
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Jennifer, thanks for sharing! Not sure I want to go down this path! Let's hope others offer some suggestions.
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#256623 - 11/12/09 07:51 PM
Re: barking
[Re: Connie Sutherland]
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Joy van Veen
Leerburg Web Board User
Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 220
Loc: Arizona, Cochise County, USA
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I have found for me it works better to reduce the volume of the bark, than to stop it altogether. I want an alert (one bark preferrably), but don't like the loud reverberating bark my dog can give. But whether you want the dog to change to a low whoof or to stop barking when you check things out, the key is setting up practice session. If you try to work on it only when things happen that require your attention, like when guests come over; you can't devote the time needed to get your point across.
Have a helper come at prearrainged times to ring your bell or knock on your door, or even call out. When your pup runs to the door and barks; look, say your command (such as no bark or enough). If the pup stops, reward then have pup sit beside you while you open the door. Reward again if pup behaves well with entry of helper. If the pup does not stop barking, bring her away from door without opening it or rewarding her, and put her on a down stay. Do not reward for the downstay. Only when pup lies quietly for at least half a minute, return to door and proceed with reward, sit, open door, greet and reward. Gradually have your helper increase the stimuli at the door, such as calling out louder or pounding on the door, and increas the time on a downstay when you pup won't stop barking.
Do similar for barking a other stimuli, such as activity at neighbors, etc. If you wish the quiet bark, just enough to alert you; correct the loud bark and praise and reward for a quiet bark. She might realize barking is not allowed but still give a quieter and quieter bark. When it is at the level you wish, praise and reward. If she is in the down stay when this happens, after rewarding, go through the steps as above to open door.
Putting her in the crate will not teach her how to behave with visitors. If something like the situation you described happens again before you've gotten control. Put her on a leash and either go in to the guests with the pup, or go back to what you were doing with the pup on a down by your feet. You can attached the leash to you if you need your hands.
_________________________
Sunkmanitu kin Olowan (Joy) Van Veen
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