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#256876 - 11/16/09 08:56 AM Biting correction - 2 schools of thought...?
Vanessa Vleck
Leerburg Web Board User


Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 39

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Hi Everyone,

I have read many a book on puppy training and I wanted some advice on how to correct when my puppy (10 week old GSD) mouths my hands. For starters, he has a very gentle mouth, he has not come close to breaking skin, but as you all know his teeth are super sharp. I redirect him when he goes after my feet in a nippy way with a toy to chew on (instead of me). But, I have read that when a puppy plays with his mouth and gets bitey you can:

a) squeeze his muzzle tightly to get him to stop
b) yelp as if you were another puppy
c) give a shake to his upper neck (like a mother would)

Thoughts on those techniques? They both work to some degree but I want to be consistent and use a correction that is appropriate. What has worked for you all?

Thanks...as Ed Frawley writes, "everyone has an opinion on training, just ask the mailman" - this is so true!

Thanks in advance.

Vanessa

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#256879 - 11/16/09 09:25 AM Re: Biting correction - 2 schools of thought...? [Re: Vanessa Vleck]
Lynne Barrows
Leerburg Web Board User
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Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1636
Loc: S. Florida

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Boy, if he's not breaking the skin then you've got a one in a million pup!

Remember, puppies explore their world with their mouths...

Personally, and especially if he's not breaking the skin, I don't think a 'correction' is warranted. You can redirect to a toy or rolled up hand towel, just like you are doing w/ pants legs.
You could try a gentle, calm squeeze of his muzzle and a firm, deep 'No...' before redirecting, to show that human skin is off-limits.
When you are playing with him, have these things ready to go (toys, tugs, hand towels) so that he is more intrigued by the toy than your skin...

Keep him on a drag line (leash w/ no loop on the end) in the house and pre-empt him from jumping on and mouthing your kids.

He will grow out of this phase. ;\)
It sounds like you've got a really nice pup. Welcome to puppyhood!


Edited by Lynne Barrows (11/16/09 09:28 AM)
_________________________
Chula

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#256934 - 11/16/09 08:48 PM Re: Biting correction - 2 schools of thought...? [Re: Lynne Barrows]
Nic Kaiman
Leerburg Web Board User


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 15
Loc: New Kent, VA

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I can't really give you any advice as to if you should correct or not, I can just tell you what worked for me when we adopted Beau in this past July.

He was an absolute TERROR on feet, esp if you were only wearing socks. He'd rip holes in them mercilessly, pull them strait off your feet; in general it was all sort of unpleasant. He'd go after bare feet and shoes(esp with laces) but not nearly with as much vigor.

We just stopped wearing only socks when around him to take the edge off and bought some slip on house shoes. Then, when he attacked our feet we'd stand still and not move. He'd eventually get bored and stop, then we'd bring out a tug or a ball. He picked it up quick; feet no fun, toys fun. \:\)
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#256938 - 11/16/09 09:41 PM Re: Biting correction - 2 schools of thought...? [Re: Nic Kaiman]
Michael Reese
Leerburg Web Board User
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Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 309
Loc: Sacramento, Ca.

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Vanessa,
What kind of dog is it and what is it's purpose?

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#256947 - 11/16/09 11:30 PM Re: Biting correction - 2 schools of thought...? [Re: Michael Reese]
Joy van Veen
Leerburg Web Board User
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Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 220
Loc: Arizona, Cochise County, USA

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At this pups age I would definitely NOT do a neck shake. The potential for harm is too great.

Lynne's advice is very good. But knowing whether you will want the pup to eventually go into any bite work would help you decide on which way, and how strong a correction (if any) would work best for you in the long run.

As for yelping; it works good for some, and is counter productive for others. For high prey drive betas, yelping might actually encourage them to bite more. For either softer dogs, or for very responsible alphas, yelping might work. But I stil don't like to use it as it simulates a submissive dog requesting the punishment stop. Like saying, "Please don't hurt me!" An alpha wouldn't yelp. As it is best if the human be the pack leader, yelping is not the best way to stop biting.
_________________________
Sunkmanitu kin Olowan (Joy) Van Veen

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#256970 - 11/17/09 09:22 AM Re: Biting correction - 2 schools of thought...? [Re: Michael Reese]
Vanessa Vleck
Leerburg Web Board User


Registered: 07/20/09
Posts: 39

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Hi Again. Tonto is a 10 week old German Shepherd - Czech line. His parents are both working dogs. My breeder chose him for me from the litter because of his calm demeanor. So far, this is very true. Tonto will be a family pet, although I'd like to get him into agility down the road...
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#257116 - 11/18/09 03:41 PM Re: Biting correction - 2 schools of thought...? [Re: Vanessa Vleck]
Michael Reese
Leerburg Web Board User
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Registered: 03/07/06
Posts: 309
Loc: Sacramento, Ca.

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Vanessa,

At this age and especially because it sounds like a working line shepherd this little guy is more alligator than dog. He is to a large degree just doing what puppies do. They explore everything with their mouths. Though it can be painful, I would redirect as much as possible and then when I couldn't take it anymore I'd put him away. I don't like the idea of creating division in the relationship that your trying to establish with your pup. Quite often this only causes confusion and manifests itself later in life.
There is plenty of time later as the pup matures and your line of communication becomes clear and well established for any type of compulsion.

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#257149 - 11/18/09 06:46 PM Re: Biting correction - 2 schools of thought...? [Re: Michael Reese]
Claudette Martz
Leerburg Web Board User


Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 50

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Hi Vanessa, I'm a new trainer myself so keep that in mind! \:\)
Also our puppies are different, but hopefully my experience
could help you. With my puppy, any kind of yelping or other
excited action encouraged him. I think it just made the game
even more fun. So then I moved to social isolation when he
did something I didn't want (such as playing tug with body
parts). Just for like 5 minutes max. This was done kind of in
combination with redirecting where possible.

Trying to correct my puppy for play-attacking us (I tried the
cheek-hold way instead of shaking) also makes the game more
fun. If I'm persistent and calm/coaxing with a cheek hold that
can sometimes change his mood and calm him down. When I did this
I transitioned slowly and gently from holding to petting.

At least I can encourage you with 'it will get much better over
time!' My puppy was a maniac, but now he's learned a lot about
when is maniac time and when is not. He still tries a chomp
here and there but I don't want to correct him much (if at
all) for it as I'd like to do Schutzhund with him.

Another important component of this equation for us was
simple management. We are gradually changing how we manage
him so that opportunities for 'maximum badness' are limited.
I think I had a harder time of it as he's a little stinker
and he really enjoys playfighting/biting. No gentle mouth here!

I think for such a young puppy that gentle/simple techniques
will yield some positive results for you. Good luck \:D
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#257151 - 11/18/09 07:11 PM Re: Biting correction - 2 schools of thought...? [Re: Vanessa Vleck]
Dennis Jones

***

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 2317
Loc: Richmond Va

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 Originally Posted By: Vanessa Vleck
Hi Again. Tonto is a 10 week old German Shepherd - Czech line. His parents are both working dogs. My breeder chose him for me from the litter because of his calm demeanor. So far, this is very true. Tonto will be a family pet, although I'd like to get him into agility down the road...




BWAAAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAA

just wait a little while
that'll all change

see the picture below?
and she is just playing

put listerine on your hands and give him something else to chase and bite




Edited by Dennis Jones (11/18/09 07:13 PM)
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