Table Training in Protection Work
Why I Don't Agree With It

Dear Mr. Frawley,

I have a 4yr. old female GSD with good german working lines. Sasha is Schutzhund trained. Sasha has super intense prey drive with a good balance of defense. She can be a little sharp or nervous at times. Not something I worry much about because she is much more confident than not. My problem is this: About two years ago I had to have her X-Rayed and checked for worms. The vets assistants took her back to another room without me. Later when she came back I could tell she had exposed her anal glands. This was a first for her. I asked them how she did and if there were any problems. They lied and said it was fine. Every since that incident she will not allow the vet to touch her or even look her in the eyes. Needless to say I use a different vet now. My new vet thinks she just an aggressive dog. I have explained that Sasha has never bit anyone. She is obedient and responds to me well. There have been two
times throughout her life where I feel she was going to bite someone. The first time was the mail man. We were behind our vehicle and all of the sudden the mail man came around the car by us. Sasha lunged but I had control. The second time was at the vets office the other day. Sasha has a broken canine. When the vet tried to look at it Sasha lunged. She would have bit her but I had control. I immediately said "onu" and corrected her. Sasha put her ears back and laid down. I cannot let the vet see her w/o a muzzle on and even then it's hard - Fight or Flight. I even have to give her acepromazine before a visit. Otherwise Sasha is overall good towards people. I can take her anywhere else. I do believe she was started in defense work (table) a little too young. I am wondering if this has anything to do with it. I now don't feel like she should have been worked on the defense table. Is there anything I can do here to get her to realize the vet is a friend?

You made the statement "you think she was started that you think she was started on the table a little too young" - let me say that NO DOG should EVER be put on a table. This is the dumbest method of dog training that anyone has ever thought up.

Your dog is not a balanced Schutzhund dog. Correct balance is 70% prey - your dog is not that. Your dog should not be worked in defense drive.

Hello-

I just read your article on table training and I couldn't disagree more. I don't know how someone can sum up table training in two short pages. You make many assumptions about this. Have you ever seen it done right????

Have you ever seen it for yourself? you say in your article that a friend of yours saw a dog being trained on a table. Do you know if your "friend" knew what he was actually seeing??? How can you write an article based on what someone else saw???? The person that developed this has put many dogs on the podium..... the top scoring protection dog at last years national was trained entirely on the table..... and he's NOT working out of fear. I know cause I have caught the dog. Kurt Falkenstern didn't think he was working out of "fear". And the 2nd place dog in the National is trained on a table. I have caught this dog when ed had him and since debbie has owned him and I can tell you that he does not work out of "fear". If these dogs are scared you would see it come out in the grips..... how can a dog that is not confident have a full calm grip? You do not know what you are talking about when it comes to table training! The square table does not have a 360 degree swivel on it either. You should get your facts straight before you start spouting off about this stuff. I also saw a Bernhard Flinks video on obedience where you go off on a tangent about table training...... What the
hell does that have to do with Bernhard Flinks obedience? Which is not that great anyway! The person who developed this method is a friend of mine and one hell of a dog trainer. He has helped many people get on the podium. I think that the results speak for themselves.

My dog was trained on the table and I have shown him 2x..... SchH 1 protection score was 100.... SchH 2 score was 98. Maybe you should get a clue about what table training is. Why don't you post this under the article where it says "comments" instead of some woman who is kissing your ass??? I will NEVER buy another video from you. I will NEVER order anything from your web site again. You are working out of "ignorance". Please take my name off your mailing list! Remember, a person can ruin someone's dog on the ground just as fast as they can on a table...... bad training is bad training no matter where it takes place. Get real.

Alex

Alex,

We had already removed your name from the mailing list. Not sure why - maybe you had moved and a catalog came back. But with that said I will not send you anymore catalogs.

Obviously you have your opinions on table training and I have mine. Nothing wrong with that. I don't care to debate the issue. I feel as strongly as you do about my position.

I will say that I do not agree with your statement about how your friend has helped many people to the podium. I am not someone who believes that "the end justifies the means." There are many abusive methods to train which produce dogs that will score in sport work. That does not make them right. Table training happens to be one of them.

But I will add your email to the article on my web site so people can see that there is a difference of opinion on table training.

I agree that the Mal in the nationals was an excellent dog (in my opinion.) Debbie's dog is not breed worthy. It's a good competition dog - but its not a dog that I would ever recommend anyone breed.

Hello Ed!

My name is Szilvia and I live in Canada. My dream was to train my dog in Schutzhund sport. I have a 8 month old rottweiler from Belgium. I was very happy to find a Schutzhund club in my area (which is the only one). We are going to this club for 4 months once a week. The owner of the club was using fishing post with a piece of leather on the end of the line to build prey drive. In the same time I was getting your tapes and I'm at "Building drive, focus and grip." I told the club, that my dog is not ready to any more training because I still working on his drives and focus. Everything was fine until today. He put (not a helper) my dog on a round table and he was using a tug and a whip to make drive. But when the dog was not focusing he was hitting the dog with the tug (not hard, but I didn't like it), even in his face I don't know why he did this. He never used this table on any other dogs or I just missed it. Anyway, I don't think I'm going back and it breaks my heart because now I can't train my dog after all. He is a very nice dog. Your tapes help us a lot. Thank you! To bad to waste this dog just because there is no good training clubs in my area! I like to ask if I waste my time to talk to the helper (he is nice with dogs) to do it the way I want him to handle my dog? If not, will this dog protect me later without training? Can I do something? Thank you for your time!!!!

Sincerely,
Szilvia

I would suggest that you read the article I have written about table training. You can find this on the article page on my web site at http://leerburg.com/articles.htm. Table training is for fat helpers that can't move and for lazy helpers who won’t move and for inexperienced helpers who don’t know what they are doing.

What I would do if I were you is to continue to work your dog in the foundation work. This means the drive and focus work and the work that I show in video 310 "Preparing Your Dog for the Helper." All of this work is done by the handler. It sounds like you got ahead of yourself too. There really was no reason for you to go to the club until your dog had gone through this work.

As time passes I will be releasing additional training videos in which I use the work of Bernhard as the foundation. If you continue with these tapes you will become educated on the art of protection training for Schutzhund. The more you know the better you are going to be at telling a helper what you want done with your dog.

Hi Ed,

Just wanted to comment about a letter that was sent to you about table training from Szilvia Simon. I happen to train at the club in Canada that Szilvia was referring to.

I was training a dog at the club the day she was referring to when her pup was put on the table.

Just an observation on my part and other members was that her dog had very little drive. The dog didn't even focus on the tug, it could care less, no interest. It was almost like the dog had a missing link. Maybe the dog needs to grow up and mature... but most of the dogs at our club go nuts for anything that moves (tug) unlike her rottie by the time the dog is 4 month old. My GSD chased the leather on the fishing pole at 7 weeks! Her dog had no interest in chasing the strip of leather on the fishing pole, the dog would bolt off the field. As you know, the dogs that have poor prey drive don't work out in the sport.

It must have been disappointing, and a hard reality for her to not be able to work with her dog because it just doesn't have the proper drives that a working dog must have for the sport of Schutzhund. It's too bad she couldn't communicate to the helper of her concerns, could have cleared up some grey areas. We were wondering what happened to her when she stopped coming out to the club.

Our club is not a "protection dog club" but indeed a very successful Schutzhund club with talented handlers and VERY talented helpers that work the dogs beautifully for the sport, dogs at all different levels and strengths.
Szilvia was nice to work with but I found it hard to communicate with her because of a language barrier.

Just thought you would like the full story as to what actually happened that day that's all. Her dog was not miss treated.

Maybe Szilvia was miss informed and didn't do her home work about the Belgium lines her rottie comes from and in my mind, expects too much from the poor dog. Maybe her dog will do well in CKC/AKC?

Szilvia is right in saying she has a nice dog but maybe as a pet...
I enjoy your site and have learn lots, thanks for you time.

Regards,
Jean

A good solid dogs will be able to handle the pressure of table training. Does this justify it's use? No.

With this said when a dog is lacking in some areas it will not handle the stress of table training. That's what it sounds like happened here.

Is the sport better off without this dog? I don't know. I do believe that the sport of schutzhund is loosing members to other dog sports and incidents like this only drive people away.

Who will ever know if this women would have seen the weakness in her dog and moved on to a more appropriate dog? We will never know that.