Debra Dibble
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 07:02 PM
unsocialized dog
this is my first message posted so I hope Im doing it right. I recently got a female gsd, 10mos old from a kennel that is just all about money.They had her in a kennel or run, nobody has did any thing at all with her,she disnt even know sit. Ive had her for a month,she is leary of everything I wouldnt say fearful but very jumpy. At the kennel she seemed very out going and friendly but I think it was because she was outside in a open area when I met her,she is even leary of me at times. And dominant aggressive at my other 2 gsd. She is czech and ddr line. I want to build her confidence,and her trust I guess I dont want to make vital mistakes with her. Can I get some advice, I rate my self as a medium experienced handler. Ive never had a dog at this age so completely barbaric. I have so far potty trained her and crate trained her. Thanks
Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
12/28/2009 07:19 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
Others will answer, too, but this will help first ...

Details:

How (in what ways) does she seem leery of you?

How is she aggressive to your other dogs?



You have three?
Dennis Jones
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 07:27 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
what I did with Roxie a retired brood bitch who spent her life either in the kennel, whelping or on the field training was to work/play with the other dogs while she was either tied out or in the kennel in plane view. Then I would kennel up the other dogs and bring her out. She saw the others getting something from me and getting excited she wanted some. this worked the other way around also. I couldn't get Erika to figure out the ball was something to chase and get and the tug was something to bite. I tied her out and played tug and ball with Roxie then Erika turned into a ball and tug nut.

The dog aggression issue is still a prob for me, the only thing that works is solid obedience, lots of exercise and never leave them alone together.
Michael Reese
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 07:34 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
Debra,
It does sound like a serious lack of socialization skills. You are going to have to be careful with this dog because it already feels defensive. If you can control the training area, train in drive with no leash (I wouldn't even talk at first). You don't know how your dog is going to percieve anything you do so make sure of your body language, tone and/or inflection when you do speak.
I would keep an open eye for any of the telltale signs of stress with this dog as well as keeping the sessions very short and all fun.
Debra Dibble
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 07:35 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
If I move to fast or come towards her direction to quickly, Also when I first got her she had some mild medical issues,I had to do some things she didnt like, put drops inears for infection that she had.which make her more uncertain of me. I think she is unsure what I'm going to do to her. shes getting better, but it seems like I have to walk on egg shells fo I dont futher her un certainey. She trys to dominate my other two like if they come into the room where her and I are, she will run at them, (especislly at the other female and snap and growl. She also does this when my ex comes in my house.charges at him agressively then kinda jumps back and barks and growls. Yes I have 3. 2 females and a male. other female is 9 and has cancer, male is 2 and a handsome boy,
Debra Dibble
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 07:51 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
what do you mean by train in drive?
Anne Jones
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 07:55 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
Keep her seperated from the other dogs until she is more comfortable in her new surroundings & with you & sees you as a strong but fair leader. Dog fights are not fun for anyone, dogs or owners. Sounds like she needs to develope some self confidance & trust. I would not rush having them all together. Wait until you have strong obedience in place & reintroduce them gradually again over time. Many of us with multiple dogs live or have lived with dogs that need to be kept seperate for extended periods of time or even forever. Just a fact of life in the dog world. Sometimes dogs just don't get along as much as we would like them to. We don't like everyone that we meet either.
Marcia Blum
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 08:00 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
My dog lacks a lot of socialization skills as well, I have had luck with marker training, it really engages her (and she loves treats). When she is not in the crate, she is on a line in the evenings, when she is the most "bossy". She is 9 months old and very demanding at times (about 7pm to 9pm). I would also say that she is skitterish by first pouncing on me, jumping back and barking when she doesn't get her way. I completely ignore her. It is pretty effective (Dennis told me to do that)...

Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
12/28/2009 08:15 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
 Quote: Debra Dibble
what do you mean by train in drive?


It means to use the tools you have, such as food, to trigger happy focus on the work....


I'm sure there are much better definitions... this was all I came up with off the top of my head.

Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
12/28/2009 08:17 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
 Quote: Anne Jones
Keep her seperated from the other dogs until she is more comfortable in her new surroundings & with you & sees you as a strong but fair leader. .... Sometimes dogs just don't get along as much as we would like them to. We don't like everyone that we meet either.



Please don't skim over this, because it's so important.

It's not what a pack leader does, to allow any pack member to be terrorized or to live in anxiety or fear of another pack member. And I can tell by your post that you want to be a great pack leader. smiley for :)
Debra Dibble
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 08:19 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
my other female was a brooding bitch also,Tossed from home to home, had no training,I kinda rescued her,made a deal with the guy. If I could have her he could have the litter she was carrying, she was almost 7 at the timeand he was about done with her. she was just a mouth to feed to him then. Well she lost that whole litter and almost died doing it,all the pups were born dead but she labored off and on for 2 weeks. She was so weak and lost alot of blood. I slept by her crate during all of it. Vet said she was bred so much she couldnt hold anymore litters. I ended up getting her for free, had her spayed, and she has been one of the best dogs i ever had. After the ordeal with the puppies she bonded to me,with all her heart and soul. Unfortunely she has breast cancer and wont be with me much longer
Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
12/28/2009 08:20 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
 Quote: Debra Dibble
She also does this when my ex comes in my house.charges at him agressively then kinda jumps back and barks and growls.



I'd crate the dog in advance, besides requiring that people coming in ignore the dog, don't hover or make eye contact or talk to the dog, etc.

You want this dog to settle in and to see you as an ever-present and dependable wall between her and anything in the world that makes her anxious.

JMO.
Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
12/28/2009 08:22 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
 Quote: Debra Dibble
my other female was a brooding bitch also,Tossed from home to home, had no training,I kinda rescued her,made a deal with the guy. If I could have her he could have the litter she was carrying, she was almost 7 at the timeand he was about done with her. she was just a mouth to feed to him then. Well she lost that whole litter and almost died doing it,all the pups were born dead but she labored off and on for 2 weeks. She was so weak and lost alot of blood. I slept by her crate during all of it. Vet said she was bred so much she couldnt hold anymore litters. I ended up getting her for free, had her spayed, and she has been one of the best dogs i ever had. After the ordeal with the puppies she bonded to me,with all her heart and soul. Unfortunely she has breast cancer and wont be with me much longer


I'm sorry about her cancer, but also filled with happiness that you gave her such an excellent new life. I hope that your own focus is on that blessing that you have been to each other's lives, too.
Melissa Thom
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 08:26 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
http://leerburg.com/301.htm

If you haven't taken a look at this video I'd like to encourage you to take a look along with pack structure for the family dog.

I got my lab at a very similar age and situation where she was essentially thrown out into a yard and locked there from the age of 12 weeks until 9 months old with very little human contact and almost no training (she knew her name). In her case it became clear very early that she would be a challenging dog because she had zero concept of her size, had very little socialization with other dogs and people, couldn't walk on a leash, and no manners. She also had a food drive to the point where a piece of kibble was too much distraction. She is slightly dog aggressive especially of other bitches, is terrified of old women and children, and has some bad habits which prevent her from ever likely be a upland game dog or a good choice as a house dog. She is good at fetching down ducks at this point but it took a year and a half to get there and we have to have her tied up and bark collared still while shooting.

We had to evaluate her after awhile and think to ourselves about what we wanted for her, as well as how that fit into the dog we had before us. In the beginning we had to handle her like a wild animal because we basically had one. If you find yourself being frustrated by training her don't take it personally, take a step back and think to yourself how do I create the picture I need to see in order to move forward. In this case for us it ment we taught sit with a dog tied to a post, we got a dominant dog collar, a prong collar which we had never needed before, and even a muzzle.
Marcia Blum
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 08:27 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
Dogs bring such a unique aspect to our lives. Your older dog is a blessing and so will is this new one be. They just need our help to find their way. Trust is BIG. and you have it with your old girl. It takes some time. You will have it with the new one. I found with my new girl that she needs that. Routine, consistency and using her drive are good tools. As are crates, treats and the long down...
Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
12/28/2009 08:57 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
By the way, Debra, are you familiar with marker training?


Michael Reese and others have you given such great advice about short training sessions that will increase the dog's confidence and her bond with you, and IMO marker training is going to be the easiest and most effective route. smiley for :)

You will love it, and so will the dog.


 Quote: Marcia Blum
My dog lacks a lot of socialization skills as well, I have had luck with marker training, it really engages her (and she loves treats).



If you are not familiar with anything anyone is suggesting, please post back. This board has some very experienced members. smiley for :cool:

Debra Dibble
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 09:48 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
thanks everyone for the help. thats one thing I will not let happen is fighting in the pack, Even if that means separation,I will put advice to work and l will let ya know how its going. Thanks again
Debra Dibble
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 09:58 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
p.s I have heard of marker training but do not know what it is all about,or how to do it. I came from the old school on obedience,but have started to try training with food motivation. Even though I learned from just correcting the dog when disobeying I've always tried to be fair with my dogs and not bully them like alot of them did in the old days. Ive heard good things about marker training but have no experience with it
Jeff Brosius
(Webboard User)
12/28/2009 10:19 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
 Quote: debra dibble
Ive had her for a month,she is leary of everything I wouldnt say fearful but very jumpy. At the kennel she seemed very out going and friendly but I think it was because she was outside in a open area when I met her,she is even leary of me at times. And dominant aggressive at my other 2 gsd. She is czech and ddr line. I want to build her confidence,and her trust I guess I dont want to make vital mistakes with her.


I have not (yet) read the entire thread, and it's possible that others have given or will give better answers ("Possible, Jeff?" "OK, OK... Probable.") but I want to address the two items above:

1. When I first got Casey, she was pretty skittish around most everything. I took the approach of "When we walk, if something makes her spook, just ignore it and keep walking." As she matured, and got to the point where she'd rather RUN than walk, we do the same thing: If she spooks, we just keep running. I've even preempted things: I'll get her running before the thunderstorms move in. In the end, she's learned that the scary stuff isn't such a big deal, and I won't let anything hurt her. Took time, as all good things do, but worth it.

2. I wouldn't be worried too much about making a mistake. Maybe I've been graced with a forgiving dog, but even when I do make a mistake, Casey doesn't seem to care. She's willing to try it again, once I've learned my lesson, so to speak. Sometimes I even get that look: "You're a silly human, you know that? You're doing it ALL wrong. Shape up, if you want this to work." Best dog advice I ever got, from a former professional trainer: Dogs don't have memories, they have habits. Don't be concerned about creating bad memories. Instead, be concerned about creating good habits. A smart dog will understand the difference. It's up to you to do the same.
Lynne Barrows
(Webboard User)
12/29/2009 07:22 AM
Re: unsocialized dog
Hi Debbie and welcome!
I'm not experienced w/ a dog of this nature, but I'm great at copying and pasting...

Here's some reading to get you started. Marker training (clicker training, without the clicker)is a great way to start developing a bond with your dog and building her confidence.

Free e-book: http://leerburg.com/pdf/markers-clickers.pdf

Also, here are two great DVD's re marker training:
http://leerburg.com/219.htm

http://leerburg.com/220.htm

There are other free e-books that you may find helpful:
http://leerburg.com/dogtrainingebooks.htm

Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
12/29/2009 10:25 AM
Re: unsocialized dog
And Debra, if after you read up a bit, you think, "Now what do I do first, right this second?" or any other question, just ask us. smiley for ;)

The first video (219 above) is a perfect intro, too. You'll love it.
Michael Reese
(Webboard User)
12/29/2009 05:04 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
Debra,
When training in drive you must get the dog engaged with you. You can use food or toys to do this with. I personally use toys most of the time, however there is a time and place to use food and that will vary depending on your dog. If your wanting to teach bitework I'd go with a toy if your dog is suited for this kind of work.
Once your dog is engaged then you will move from one exercise to the next making sure you keep the drive level up. You must remain interesting to do this succesfully so be careful not to repeat the same exercise over and over (you must break it up to keep up the interest).
Try to understand the principles of the training and try to avoid formulas. You and your dog are unique and therefore your training will have to take on it's own uniqueness.
You can also use markers in this type of training after you "charge the mark".
Debbie Dibble
(Webboard User)
01/01/2010 11:03 AM
Re: unsocialized dog
Hi, just thought I'd give a update on UTA, I got out a orbee ball, At first she was leary of it, so I let her watch while I played with the older female(who is prey drive crazy) Then let Uta back out and she did very well for her first time. I dont think she knows what playing is, she looked confused at first.She is very food oriented. I think before she was fed just enough to keep alive. I been keeping sessions short so she is wanting more when we stop. I think I need to read on normal pack behavior because I'm not quite understanding their relationship with each other. I think they all know I'm the alpha but I can let the 2 females outside together their good, I an let the 2 yearold male out with either female and he's alittle rough with both of them.like he's trying to be 2 in line. But inside the 2 females get more dominate with each other. And outside if all 3 are out they start getting alittle pushy with each other. Is it a territorial issue? Each feel protective of different parts of their home? And do I let them work it out themselves to a certain point. There hasnt been any fighting, alittle warning growl or hard tail wagging. Uta will take to running at them and just put her mouth on them, but she not biting down hard. I seen the advice about the vidio 219? Im not sure how to get to it to watch it. I'm really new to websites and dont know how to use them efficently. Thanks guys
Debbie Dibble
(Webboard User)
01/01/2010 05:00 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
I have a question I did not know where toput it. My female that is 9yrs old has had breast cancer they dont know how far it has spread yet, Can the cancer go to her brain? She has been acting very strange in the last week and a half. I let her outside a feww minutes ago and were having kinda having a blizzard here right now snows up to about bottom of my knee.anyway she was fine at first but then laid down in the snow would not come to me. I left her out there at first thinking she would come in in a few minutes. Checked on her again and she had a concerned look on her face. I called her she started dragging her self to me. I went out tried to look her over thoght maybe she slipped in the snow and broke her hip or something. It seemed alright but she wouldnt move. I picked her up as good as I could and carried to the house. She didnt yelp or anything. She is like stareing maybe disoriented? It looks like she knows something is wrong with herself. She wasnt responding to me at all like she normally does. Do you think she could turn goofy on me cause of the cancer? You think its time to put her down? I'm upset, confused and worried. Seems like I'm having a hard time with animal issues lately. Any advice?
Anne Jones
(Webboard User)
01/01/2010 05:12 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
Sorry to hear about your girl. Her behavior does sound odd. I'm not sure if it is the same in dogs as in people...but I believe that breast cancer usually mets to bone & lung cancer to brain. But anything is always possible. Is she on any meds? Is it possible that she is having some reaction or side effect from a drug that she is taking?

ETA...I especially would not let either of the other dogs pick on your older sick dog. It is not fair. It would still be advisable to keep them seperated it they are still growling & postering with one another. A dog fight is not a pretty thing. You need to be with them at all times when they are together if there is even the slightest chance that they will fight. It is not good pack leadership if you allow them to engage one another. My male is usually the one to stir things up, but my female is just as likely to start up an altercation when she gets in the mood. I am evervigilent to keep order & not allow any sparing in the ranks. Mine know that it just isn't allowed & there will be a price to pay if they start it up.
Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
01/01/2010 05:20 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
 Quote: Debbie Dibble
And outside if all 3 are out they start getting alittle pushy with each other. Is it a territorial issue? Each feel protective of different parts of their home? And do I let them work it out themselves to a certain point.


NO. In my opinion, no. You have a pack, and a pack requires more vigilance on the part of the owner than one dog or two dogs to stay firmly and unquestionably in pack-leader position.
Anne Jones
(Webboard User)
01/01/2010 05:24 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
Connie you were typing at the same time with mostly the same info that I was.
Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
01/01/2010 05:28 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
 Quote: Anne Jones
Sorry to hear about your girl. Her behavior does sound odd. I'm not sure if it is the same in dogs as in people...but I believe that breast cancer usually mets to bone & lung cancer to brain. But anything is always possible. Is she on any meds? Is it possible that she is having some reaction or side effect from a drug that she is taking?



Is she on meds?

I just want to say that a dog 9 years old who has cancer that you don't know what stage it's in, who is dragging herself around in the snow, and who is intermittently non-responsive -- well, I want to say that I have beaten myself up for years over waiting a little too long to PTS a terminally ill dog, but I have never thought that I made a mistake and did it too soon .... and this does not sound like too soon.

I hope this comes across the way I mean it. I mean that when I have made the decision with strictly the welfare of the dog in mind, with no reference to my own sadness or pain of loss, then I have never regretted the PTS decision.

Of course, you are there and seeing the dog, and I'm not.
Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
01/01/2010 05:30 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
 Quote: Anne Jones
..I especially would not let either of the other dogs pick on your older sick dog. It is not fair. It would still be advisable to keep them seperated it they are still growling & postering with one another. A dog fight is not a pretty thing. You need to be with them at all times when they are together if there is even the slightest chance that they will fight.


Exactly. We pack leaders have the serious responsibility to protect every pack member.
Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
01/01/2010 05:54 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
 Quote: Anne Jones
...but I believe that breast cancer usually mets to bone ...


Yes, breast cancer typically spreads to bone.

Collapsing, dragging herself through the snow .... smiley for :(

I am so sorry that you have to deal with this. It's part of what we take on when we commit to providing a permanent home and care for a dog. Doesn't make it any easier, though. smiley for :(
Debbie Dibble
(Webboard User)
01/01/2010 06:40 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
yep your right, I always want to take these past abused dogs because my heart goes out to them, and think I can change things for them and somtimes the damage is to extensive. She isnt on any Meds. Ive already put so much money into her over so many different issues, she has been my money pit. She is eating very well and drinking and before the last week still playing and running like she is 2. Maybe some of it is this new female in the house. I'll watch her and as long as she's not in any pain I'll keep going. This is the first time i'v had this many dogs. I'm learning it is alot of responibility, pleasure and sorrow. I dont think theres any thing that my heart could commit to more Thanks again to everyone for the feed back.
Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
01/01/2010 06:53 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
 Quote: Debbie Dibble
yep your right, I always want to take these past abused dogs because my heart goes out to them, and think I can change things for them and somtimes the damage is to extensive. She isnt on any Meds. Ive already put so much money into her over so many different issues, she has been my money pit. She is eating very well and drinking and before the last week still playing and running like she is 2. Maybe some of it is this new female in the house. I'll watch her and as long as she's not in any pain I'll keep going. This is the first time i'v had this many dogs. I'm learning it is alot of responibility, pleasure and sorrow. I dont think theres any thing that my heart could commit to more Thanks again to everyone for the feed back.


Is she still dragging rather than walking, or was that temporary?
Debbie Dibble
(Webboard User)
01/01/2010 08:44 PM
Re: unsocialized dog
she isnt dragging anymore. She came in and went off by her self. I put her in the bathroom where she likes to go to be by her self and gave her a RMB and sat in there with her for awhile she seems to be acting more herself now. She sll of a sudden wont not go through my kitchen sliding glass door, to come inside from outside I finally got her to come in through the garage. I"M afraid to let her out that I will have to go get her out of the snow again. All of this is very unusual behavior for her. I wish I knew Dog phycology, cause i havent a clue on whats shes doing. maybe being in snow that deep fliped her out. she seems better now
Debbie Dibble
(Webboard User)
01/02/2010 11:08 AM
dog acting strange
Hi I posted a message last nite about my older female dragging her back legs, well I was up all nite with her she kept wanting outside to go potty. This morning she was in alot of pain I took her to the vetand they did ex-rays. The problem was she had blockage in her intestines. alot of bone fragments were in there along with alot of stool. The treatment was going to be long and expensive. Vet said it didnt look good for her, she had the worst possible blockage, the nonsurgical treatment probably wouldnt work. they would end up doing the surgery too. She also had cancer, I made the decision to put her down. I feel like I contributed to her death by the diet. I pretty much followed Eds menu, Right now I'm scared my other 2 are going to get the same thing. What do you guys think? was it me? was it the diet? her age, the cancer? I dont know.
Jenni Williams
(Webboard User)
01/02/2010 11:15 AM
Re: dog acting strange
First, sorry to hear you had to do that last night.

What kind of cancer? How old was she again?

When you say "pretty much" what exactly do you mean in terms of diet?

I wouldn't blame yourself for this; it sounds like there was a myriad of other issues that led to her not being able to process food properly. I don't think bone fragments are much more likely than anything else to cause a blockage if it can't be properly broken down. If she had cancer, who knows what kind of bizarre chemistry she had going on. Keep in mind, just because there were bone fragments present, does NOT mean that they CAUSED the blockage. If there's a blockage, nothing gets through...not bone or anything else. Yes, the bone should've been broken down better than that, but that's a different problem more related to her stomach acids, IMO. At least from your description, it sounds this way to me because there was a fair amount of other stool material there as well. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If your other two are healthy, I would not worry about it. I have been giving tons of bone to my dogs for about 8 years. I have 7 currently....and never have I had a problem. That's beyond "lucky" so I feel sure telling you that bones inherently do not present a risk to a healthy animal.

Again, sorry for your loss.
Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
01/02/2010 11:26 AM
Re: dog acting strange
 Quote: Debbie Dibble
Hi I posted a message last nite about my older female dragging her back legs, well I was up all nite with her she kept wanting outside to go potty. This morning she was in alot of pain I took her to the vetand they did ex-rays. The problem was she had blockage in her intestines. alot of bone fragments were in there along with alot of stool. The treatment was going to be long and expensive. Vet said it didnt look good for her, she had the worst possible blockage, the nonsurgical treatment probably wouldnt work. they would end up doing the surgery too. She also had cancer, I made the decision to put her down. I feel like I contributed to her death by the diet. I pretty much followed Eds menu, Right now I'm scared my other 2 are going to get the same thing. What do you guys think? was it me? was it the diet? her age, the cancer? I dont know.


With breast cancer, which typically metastasizes to the bone, and a dog dragging herself around, with periods of non-responsiveness, I think that many reading this thread expected her to be PTS or to go on her own very very soon, Debbie. I was trying to say that in my earlier post.

Please don't think that you had any hand in this at all. You didn't.

You can open a new thread if you want and detail your other dogs' diets and their poops and we can help you to assess them.

But this dog sounded like end-stage to me, Debbie.

I'm sorry. You gave her a good last-part-of-life. You should feel like a blessing to her, and not in any way a negative in her life.
Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
01/02/2010 11:35 AM
Re: dog acting strange
I just want to add that bone involvement is very very painful. Also, when the liver becomes involved in the metastasis, digestion is seriously hindered from the liver-pancreas breakdown.

In other words, this sound like it was a not-unexpected progression, and that you made the right decision for her.

Please don't think of this in the wrong light.



I'm not a health professional, of course.

Connie Sutherland
(Moderator)
01/02/2010 11:38 AM
Re: dog acting strange
 Quote: Jenni Williams
.... I feel sure telling you that bones inherently do not present a risk to a healthy animal. ...



So do I.

Also feel sure that you gave her the best diet she had ever eaten.
Debbie Dibble
(Webboard User)
01/02/2010 11:50 AM
Re: dog acting strange
Thats why I made the decision to put her down. If she didnt have the cancer I would of did the teatment and surgey. Thanks for the support. I will get on later and post exactly what and how I'm feeding the other 2. I think right now I'm gonna go shower and take a nap. I'm mentally and physically wiped out. Thanks again connie.
steve strom
(Webboard User)
01/02/2010 12:01 PM
Re: dog acting strange
Hey Debbie, I'm sorry to hear about your dog. There are so many things that cause obstructions that won't show on an xray that I wouldnt think the bone fragments could have anything to do with it. Bone fragments mixed in stool sounds like something a healthy dog would pass. I do know how you are feeling right now though. My Rott had some health problems while on a raw diet that in the beginning had me worrying about what I may have done wrong.

Anne Jones
(Webboard User)
01/02/2010 12:25 PM
Re: dog acting strange
Sorry for your loss. You gave this dog a wonderful life while you had her. I feed raw (over 6 years)& will also mention that many of the vets like to 'blame' raw diets on many of the ills that dogs have while being fed this diet. Alot of it is that they are, for the most part, very limited in their knowledge of canine nutrition. Many of us that feed raw are actually more well read on canine nutrition then most vets. Please don't blame yourself or her diet for her 'time'.
Jenni Williams
(Webboard User)
01/02/2010 01:06 PM
Re: dog acting strange
Ok, I finally took the time to go back and reread the whole thread. I guess I didn't realize that it was all under the "unsocialized dog" thread.

Now, even more than I was when I posted initially, I am quite sure you and the raw diet had NOTHING to do with this. This was advanced cancer, and like I said before, who knows what kind of digestive issues she was having that could interfere with breakdown of bones, or if the bone fragments had anything to with any of this at all!

This is a classic case of no one and nothing to blame; you did the best you possibly could have.

Get some rest and try to convince yourself of that.