Hi everyone
I have a 6 year old castrated gsd,he has had problems with his skin since 4 months of age.He started off on royal canin as a puppy then arden grange as a yearling.The vet recomended burns when he was about 10 months and i had an allergy test done.Its called yorktest,out of a score of 1 to 5,wheat is 3,soyabean is 4,barly is 3,rice is 1,potatoe is 1,corn is 2.His skin settled down at about a year old and he stayed on burns for a few years after that.He developed pannus at 4 years old and started scratching and biting his paws last year,he was put on prednisolone and tribrissen.I tried a local food,salmon and potatoe with allery x,he has been on it 4 months but it hasnt worked and he is back on steroids.The vet says food might not do it on its own and he may need a low dose of steroids to stop him biting himself.Any advice would be most welcome,thanks for reading this post.
robbie

Robert, so far none of the serum tests, including YorkTest in Dublin, has proved to be reliable or accurate for dogs' true FOOD allergies. (I am talking about FOOD allergy and its lack of reliability in blood testing, for dogs. Blood tests, including RAST and ELISA, are not useful for FOOD allergens for dogs, but can be somewhat useful (and ELISA has improved recently) for atopy, for which the gold standard remains intradermal testing -- "scratch" tests -- and even that is about 70 to 75% accurate, and not for FOOD. It remains true that only a strict elimination diet can reliably identify food allergens in dogs.)

I know you are not going to believe me, and that your vet is convinced, and that I will have to haul out all the derm vet manuals and web sites to quote and link, and I don't blame you.

But regardless, you can see that the dog is in trouble and that you have to look beyond foods. In addition, some of those are almost givens for not feeding dogs and you wouldn't choose a food with those ingredients anyway (wheat, soy, corn). Potato and rice .... eh. Rice is a fairly unlikely allergen, but OK, rice and potato are also easily removed from the diet.

Do you know that food is by far the least likely allergy causing your dog's dermatitis, period? Flea-bite hypersensitivity is number one (by far) and then environmental/inhalant. (Food is a far distant third, causing about 10% of canine allergies. And dogs who do have a food allergy usually have atopy as well.)

So with that background, I want to urge you to read some of the hundreds of allergy threads here, of which I can dig up and link you to a few, and also to answer these questions (which all help point to type of allergy):

Is there any seasonal spike or relief in the paw-itching?

Is there any time of day that's worse?

Does he have any itching at the base of the tail or along the backbone? Shins?

Does he rub his face on furniture or the carpet?

What areas of the body seem to itch besides the paws? Tell us exactly, such as "the muzzle around the lips" or "around the eyes" or "the back shins."

Does he have anal gland issues? Does he scoot?

Does he have G.I. issues (like maybe soft poops)? Does he have frequent bowel movements? Gas? Any vomiting?

Has he ever had an ear infection?

What was the cytology result for between he toes? If no testing, is it red and inflamed? Is there any odor or debris?

Has he ever had fleas that you know of?

PS These are quotes from vet sites with links to them.

Q. You read or were told by a friend that there is a blood test for food allergies in dogs.
A. Currently these tests are not accurate and are not reliable. They can not be used to select an appropriate diet for your dog. A food allergy trial is the only way to determine if your dog has food allergies.
VeterinaryPartner.com at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=PRINT&A=2499



Blood Testing: There is no evidence that blood tests are accurate for the diagnosis of food allergies. Veterinary dermatologists insist that there is no merit in these tests whatsoever in the diagnosis of food allergies. The only way to accurately diagnose food allergies is with a food trial as detailed above. While the intradermal skin testing is excellent for diagnosing atopy (inhalant allergies) it is ineffective for food allergies. While specialized blood tests can be used to help in the diagnosis of atopy, they have no benefit in diagnosing food allergies. In our review of all the current books and articles on veterinary dermatology and allergies, we could not find a single dermatologist that endorsed anything other than the food trial as an effective diagnostic aid. If you want to diagnose and treat food allergies you must do a food trial.
Doctors Foster & Smith at http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2111&aid=143








I can reel these off from books and web sites by the dozens, because at this time, no authoritative source and no derm vet endorses any blood test to diagnose food allergies in dogs. It's probably on the horizon, but it's not here. Every few months or so I read about advances in developing true food-allergy (meaning a true allergic response) tests for dogs (besides the always-reliable food trial, or elimination diet), but so far, nothing has reached a reliable/accurate stage.

Your vet has been sold on it by the manufacturer just like many many other GP vets. Derm is a vet specialty for a reason: it's a big, complicated, area.

Thanks connie for that detailed reply,it was the vet that suggest the test and the other part of the test was out door allergens,6 differant weeds,indoor allergens are storage mites,acarus siro 2,house dust mites,derm farinae 3.His back can be greasy and itchy,he bites his paws and front legs,he bites his back legs above the joint,he has a recurrent problem with the same ear,he scratches at his chest,he has pannus which is treated with maxitrol eye drops.Most of the carpets have gone so we are on the bare boards,laminate flooring is going down and i could kennel him outside through the day.There are no problems with his bowels or stools,his tail is fine,no skin tests have been done nor between his toes.All the dried food i have looked at either contains rice or potatoe but if the test isnt accurate then its a process of finding food that suits him.I have emailed burns dog food and they said the same thing about the allergy test,there food is supposed to be one of the best for allergies.He was on a local food ,salmon and potatoe with allergy x but it hasnt helped.I am thinking changing the carpets for laminate flooring should help,he has never had fleas and his scratching doesnt seem to be seasonal.
thanks robbie

it was the vet that suggest the test and the other part of the test was out door allergens,6 differant weeds,indoor allergens are storage mites,acarus siro 2,house dust mites,derm farinae 3.

Blood tests for dogs are not particularly accurate or reliable, not at all for food and still limited but improving for inhalant/environmental. But those are pretty common allergens. Derm Farinae is house dust mite. Acarus Siro is storage mite.


His back can be greasy and itchy,he bites his paws and front legs,he bites his back legs above the joint,he has a recurrent problem with the same ear,he scratches at his chest,


So he has yeast? Have scrapings been done on the greasy parts? (Classic description of yeast.)


Most of the carpets have gone so we are on the bare boards,laminate flooring is going down and i could kennel him outside through the day.

Well, that won't help with airborne allergens from weeds and other plants.



he has never had fleas

That you have seen. MANY dogs whose owners have never seen or been bitten by a flea have fleas and flea-bite dermatitis.





So far you have not particularly described typical food allergy symptoms.

More questions:

Does he lose sleep scratching?

Does he break skin?

Does he itch at the base of the tail or along his backbone? You said his back. Did you mean along the backbone? Does he bite at the tailbone area?

Have you ever done a white-sheet test?

Does he get bathed often? How often?

Do you bathe his paws often? How often?

yes he did lose sleep scratching,he does break the skin,he sometimes bites ath base of his tail.I have never done a white sheet test,he doest get bathed,i havent bathed his paws.He has never had any scrapings done from greasy parts,are these all symptoms of fleas connie
thanks

OK, you have some work to do.

ALL environmental allergies benefit from getting the allergens off the dog so he is not breathing them from his fur 24/7. This means rinsing or bathing or the very very minimum on freezing days, unscented hypoallergenic baby wipes.

The paws are particularly prone to picking up allergens (pollen, mites, dust, etc.). It is easy for him to step through a pan of CLEAN water onto a clean towel and then have each paw carefully and thoroughly blotted dry (between toes as well).

You are not washing off the layer of yeast overgrowth and it just gets more chance to form another layer, a greasy (or waxy) coat of (get ready) fungus, mixed usually with bacteria. It sounds like Malassezia.

If he is breaking skin, he will get a bacterial infection. Treating it (which would have to be done) will encourage yeast overgrowth even more, so we have to stop the breaking of skin asap.

I'll bet he has flea-bite dermatitis (you are describing it perfectly with base-of-tail biting,"sometimes," meaning when a flea bites him) as well as inhalant allergies, but we'll have more questions.

First, I would do the white-sheet test. Do you know how?

no i dont no how to do the white sheet test

OK, don't bathe the dog. Now spread out a clean plain white cloth on the floor anchored onto a carpet or somehow taped to the floor at the corners so it doesn't bunch up and fold, etc.

Put the dog in the center. Lying down is fine. Brush thoroughly and vigorously.

Now you'll see specks of "dirt." Either smear some of them onto a damp (almost wet) paper towel or drop a drop of water on one. The red-brown wet color will show you that that the "pepper" is flea poop, which of course is your dog's dried blood.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-check-your-dog-for-fleas.html



If you wonder why we focus on fleas first when you see no fleas, check out this thread for the reasons:

http://leerburg.com/webboard/thread.php?topic_id=29702&page=1

PS

Today and tomorrow are training days. I'll be in and out and I imagine so will other atopy experts, but you WILL get help.

Back this afternoon.