from another thread:

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

NO LASER LIGHTS for dogs!

I know many people don't know the danger yet, but it's always good to get another thread here that alerts people, because it's still being used.

If you had read the many many horror stories about dogs developing permanent ODB starting with laser lights (even with flashlights, occasionally), you'd know why we have a pile of PMs saying "Yikes!"

I did mention not to overdo it. I only use it occasionally myself. I have not noticed any Obsessive compulsive disorder in my dogs.

I did not mean it as a way to train, only to proof a dog that has problems performing under high states of prey drive.

There are plenty of dogs that have the Obsessive Compulsive disorder with tugs & kong toys, especially the ones you put food inside of. And the overuse of stimulus with an e-collar can cause a dog to perform out of compulsion not because it enjoys what it is doing.

In my opinion, there comes a time for the dog where the only reward they get is a vocal "Good Dog". You should't have to continually reward your dog with an object or food, there comes a time when they figure out, I did what was expected of me and that word tells me so.

The light itself is not the reward, the thrill of chasing it is.
The same way as with retrievers, on the hunt the reward is not the bird they go to get, it is just the retrieve itself. When the dog brings back the bird they don't get any kind of reward, they bring the bird back and give it up with nothing in return but "good dog" and a pat on the head & then wait for the next retrieve. In my opinion there comes a time when you should not have to have a physical object or food as a reward.

Look at the dock diving dogs. They don't do it for a reward, they do it because they just love it.


There is engagement in this game, once the dog figures out you are the one that controls the light. You will know when you stop the light and the dog comes running up toward you looking at you like "cmon dude gimmie the light I want to chase it"

A success story in my work with Tibby using a laser was, with tugs, toys food etc I could NEVER get Tibby to jump over anything. She did when she was a little puppy but as she got bigger she got to where she wouldn't even try and jump over a board 6 inches high, not even for food. her "obsession" to get the light helped "override" whatever the reason was that she would not jump, be it fear or whatever. Now she jumps over stuff without a problem, and does it for NO reward at all. I point and tell her over and she jumps over.

Another success story is, both my dogs used to love chasing the stray cats that come in my yard. I could yell & scream at them and they did not respond, because the drive state was so high. Now if we go outside and they see a cat the instant they go to bolt I can stop them with NO and I don't have to scream.


So once again, it may not be for every person/dog, and I stress DO NOT OVER DO IT. BUt for me it has helped getting them to perform in states of high prey drive.

So you can YIKES all you want lol. I YIKE everytime someone brings up the use of an e-collar. Yet you sell them to people who haven't even shown they have completed marker training. YIKES!!!
I will take yikers as people who have only yiked because of what they read or heard from others, and not someone who has actually tried it, and been 'conservative' with it.

So let me reiterate.
The laser is not used for marker training PERIOD!
It is for me ONLY a proofing tool. A way to put the dog in a state of high prey drive, in a CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT (your back yard) and condition them to perform under that state of high drive.
And only used periodically ... once a week at the very most.

I had to hide all the flash lights from my grankids a few yrs back because thy had my JRT running up the living room walls after the light. They had the little bassid all the way up to the cealing. He was so freaky about it he started diving after any light reflections off of anything.

It can become very OCD.

Of course your choice is your choice, RC.


But for general info for other readers:

Scroll down to "Laser lights and flashlight games need special mention. Don’t! "
at http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=2180&S=1

http://www.examiner.com/article/are-laser-pointers-safe-for-dogs

http://dogingtonpost.com/laser-pointers-could-be-bad-for-your-dog/


Or just Google laser pointers, dogs

"I will take yikers as people who have only yiked because of what they read or heard from others, and not someone who has actually tried it, and been 'conservative' with it."



And yet I believe what I read about not giving my dog dark chocolate, for example, without actually trying it "conservatively" to see for myself at what point he develops liver disease.

So I detect a flaw in your argument.

Anecdotal evidence is part of what develops our worldview. But that doesn't mean I set out to try it for myself every time I read well-documented (and abundant) warnings about health dangers.

I can call my dog off a cat too...no screaming or even raising my voice. I didn't use a laser to do it.

Just because a method works doesn't mean it's a good method.

what about those people that still yank their dogs around, or hit them or scream at them until the dog does what their told???
they get results, yes the dog is doing it out of fear more than likely , but hey..it works, right? Their dog obeys, so even though it's not good for the dog people should still give it a shot because it works...that's your argument..it works?

Lots of stuff works...doesn't mean it's a healthy way to train a dog.