Christian,
If it has only been a week I wouldn’t worry about it. Be patient. I’m Curious does the dog whine during the day as well?

As for the can with coins technique, it works. But some dogs are so involved in their whining that they can careless about the coins. Plus, I don’t know what kind of negative consequence with imprinting puppies using this method. I wouldn’t want to chance a dog to stop whining/ barking because it scared of the noise.

As for a lot of toys in the crate, I would disagree. The dog is not whining because he is bored, but wants out. NOW!!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> He wants to be with his pack. So DO put him in the crate while you are home from time to time. Be in the same room and read a book. :rolleyes: (with ear plugs) When you put him in the crate give him no emotion and the same for letting him out. The schedule that you are working out is fine, but remember to put him in for short times as well, even on your days off. Put him in for 5 min. or an hour and be unpredictable. That way you can keep him guessing when you are going to come home. Back to the toys, I have used the Kong with great success. I actually recommend buying two or three of them. This is a toy that you can stuff food and treats into the middle and the dog tries to get it out. This method requires a lot of acting so if you suck at acting you better practice in the mirror before experimenting on your dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . Take a stuffed Kong with peanut butter, hot dogs, or cheese and tease the heck out of the dog. Let him get a good whiff and pretend to eat it and make a lot of mmmmmm sounds. Keep the Kong away from the puppy and allow him to see the Kong for short periods of time. As he gets excited and repositions to take another look at it, hoard it and turn you back to the pup with some silly acting mmmmmmm. Sounds stupid, but what you are trying to do is get the dog to want it so bad that he can taste it. Give him the Kong outside of the crate for the first few times. But only give it to him when he is going nuts. As he learns the routine you can start throwing it into the crate. The reason for buying two or three of them is that you can freeze the Kong to make them last a little longer (30-40min). It just makes it easier since your putting him in the crate so frequently. KEY INFO : The Kong is ONLY used as a SPECIAL TREAT for going INTO the crate. The Kong is used as a pacifier to get the dogs mind off of getting out of the crate, but getting the food out of the Kong. The idea is to prevent the anxiety of being manifesting into full-blown hysteria for being locked up. A distraction.
The goal of house breaking/potty training is not to allow accidents to happen and keep accidents to a minimum. You mentioned that he looks depressed, and refuses to take treats. That’s fine, but you should really ignore him while he is in the crate. Don’t feel sorry for him, keep your emotions suppressed and wait him out. When he is fussing/excited when you are about to let him out wait until he is nice and calm. As this is the desirable behavior you are willing to respond to. It’s tough love and he will learn to get over it. Trust me I went through the same thing. When he is out of the crate, I also recommend leashing the dog inside the house until reliable. As for other tips you may want to try covering the crate as well. Turning on the radio or leaving the TV has also helped me.
Keep on fighting and don’t give up. If this doesn’t work keep trying.

To those who responded, thanks for the insight. At this point, he'll be a SchH trained dog, so crate banging and soda cans will be out of the question. I don't want him to be startled by loud noises.

Unfortunately, we can't put him outside or in the garage. Currently it's -15 outside, and almost as cold in the garage (I'm in VT). So in the house he says.

Aki: Are you saying that he doesn't get a Kong unless he goes in willing? We usually throw the Kong in to get him to go into the crate. Right now, he will only go in the crate willingly to check to see if there's a treat or two in there.

We'll, I'm on night #12, and I expect it to be a rough one as usual.

The first couple weeks are the worst. I think that holds true no matter if you get the pup at 8 weeks or 12. It is helpful if the breeder does acclimate the pups to crates before hand, but unfortunatley not all do. Things should start improving relatively soon, and if you don't crack in the meantime, you will forget all about it in a couple months.

The crate banging and soda can trick will not bother him for the gunshots later on down the line. The dogs that have problems with gunshots have a nerve problem. The shaking of the can is a distraction from the behavior. I don't do the can, but I will whack a crate on occasion. LOL..

Christian,
Sorry to hear that your having a hard time with crate training. Like I said, I was there not to long ago. If it’s the type of crying I think it is (bloody murder) I don’t recommend trying to startle/distract a dog from wailing because it heard a noise. The noise would have to overpower the dogs own crying and it will do you no good if the dog thinks he is getting your attention. And worse yet, cry even louder.

As for the Kong, if all you do is put biscuits in it I don’t think you not motivating him enough. Cheese, hot dogs, peanut butter, liver paste, and anything else that is stinky should do the trick. Remember it’s a distraction, and we want the puppy to be consumed with the goodies when he goes in. Biscuits sometimes are too easy or too hard to get out. And is on the lower spectrum of treat worthiness. The Kong liver paste with tiny biscuits shoved inside the paste then frozen worked the best for me. Costly, but I got to sleep. Well worth the money.

If he is going in the crate at the moment to investigate, that’s a start. Close the crate while he gets the treat out, and simply open the crate when he finishes. Open the crate before he starts crying, and slowly increase the duration before you open the door the next time. It would be a good idea to stay in the room for now. But I truly believe that if you use super treats and freeze them so they take 40 minutes to get the goods out. That’s 40 minutes in the crate without crying, and now the pup is mentally exhausted, hopefully time to sleep.

I don’t know what type of crate you have but I also changed from a wire crate to a plastic one. He seemed to like the coziness of the plastic one. I had originally got the wire one because he would be able to see me, but he really could care less. He just wanted to be with me. Now he goes in both with no problems. Time to go to bed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Sorry had to slip that one in there. You too will one day sleep again.

Aki,

Thanks for the advice. We've been putting cream cheese in, but not freezing it. We're going to buy a couple Kong's tonight, and try freezing. He's in a plastic crate.

All,

Quick update: there was a little progress last night. Everytime my pup decided he was going to take a nap, I put him in his crate. He would immediately walk right out. However, everytime he tried to nap ouside the crate, I would keep putting him in there, and encouraging him to lay down. This happened about 30 times. Finally, he decided it wasn't worth the effort to keep trying to sleep outside the crate, and took his first nap in the crate with the door open.

As a result, when we put him in for the night, his tantrums were a bit less intense, and a smidge shorter. Hey...at least it's progress...

I will keep on with this approach, as well as freezing his kong with cream cheese. Maybe tonight, I'll close the door a little bit more during his nap and see what happens.

My will is stronger. I will prevail against the 25lb beast...

Christian

p.s. Thanks to everyone for the moral support. Who would have thought a puppy could disrupt 2 lives so easily...

Another Update:

This weekend, things were looking up. During the day, we would have him take naps in the crate during the day (with the door open), and one time I even was able to close the door for about 10 minutes without him making a peep. He'll walk in and out of the crate...and sometimes chew his bone in the crate with the door open.

However, at night, or when we leave the house...he still screams bloody murder. Last night we even tried putting a mattress on the floor, and sleep next to the crate with him seeing us....which made no difference.

Is this guy stubborn and I have to be patient getting him to accept the crate...or is there a chance he's not crate trainable? Ideally, I wanted him to accept the crate on his terms...but is crate banging or can shaking a consideration now at the 2wk point?

Other than that...he's the best puppy...

HELP!

what you are experiencing is totally normal, hang in there, I have an 8month old american cocker and she still whines at night when we put her in her cage at times, she'll walk in when it;s time to go upstairs to the bedroom, and she also knows that a treat awaits her in the crate. As much as the crate will be comfortable for your dog, they will still rather prefer to be outside than inside, so be patient, your dog's cries and whines will slowly go from 1 hr episodes to 2 minutes episodes. What I realized is that the less moving around we do in bed, the quicker she gets to sleep and when she is asleep, she doesn't get up in the night any longer as well (we started ignoring the 1am pee cries and it worked with time) Get yourself a good pair of earplugs, it really works and the whine will bother you less, I don't agree with putting a bone or toys in the crate, your dog needs to make the distinction between playtime and rest time. a good treat to reward her willingness to get inside the crate is sufficient.

I don't want to discourage you, but not all dogs adapt at the same pace, so your pup may take one more day to get used to it, or 3 more months.. what is important is the consistency... keep at it, over and over again, the same way... results are bound to come, your dog will realize that he/she is not getting anywhere by crying...
our dogs are worth the headaches and sacrifices... that's what being a pet owner is all about, nobody said it's easy, but when they are well trained, with times, we can't stop talking about them... just read all the other posts...hang in there...

I went about this the wrong way in the beginning, but within a few weeks my pup stopped whining. We started with a puppy gate in the kitchen and a big dog bed - we got him at 7 weeks. I didn't sleep for the first 3 or 4 days because he woudl wake up and whine and I had to take him out or clean-up the mess he made 3-4 tiems a night. I would then lie with him until he fell asleep and then sneak out (we have a one story house and the bedroom is close to the kitchen).

Eventually, we realized this wasn't working so we brought his bed into bedroom and tied his leash to the foot of the bed and covered the floor with towels in the area he was able to move about in. If I heard his collar jingle I would wake up and take him out and then I would lay down with him until he fell back asleep and then move back to the bed. Sometimes I would fall asleep on the floor myself. After about a week of this we got him a crate and put it in the bedroom, but still kept one of his 2 beds outside with towels covering the floor. He would whine a little bit, but quickly stopped. WHen I hear his collar jingling I would wake up and take him outside. Sometimes he would plop down and not want to go back in the crate so he spent about half of the night in the crate and half tied to the foot of the bed with me on the floor with him.
AFter about a week of this we stopped letting him sleep outside of the crate and moved the crate to the hall outside the bedroom and keep the bedroom door open so he can see us. He doesn't cry or whine in the crate anymore. We should have started with the crate right away.

Also, I think 5:30 - 9:30 is too much time out of the crate. We have been having mouthiness/chewing problems and Ed recommended re-reading the groundwork article which I did. We were giving him supervised free roam of the house when we were home and we found that controlling him more made him less likely to nip and chew (this is more than just using the crate though).

Good luck

Okay....we're on to 3 weeks of unhappiness in the house when it's crate time.

Otto is still screaming his head off, and it seems that we aren't making any progress. His fits still resemble a 2 year old having a full-blown tantrum in the grocery aisle. You know the ones where they throw themselves around on the ground, and are inconsolable?

That being said, it doesn't seem like he will accept this crate any time soon.

I know he's a puppy (14wks tomorrow), and it's "only" been the 3 longest weeks of our life (puppy included), but isn't there a point where he needs to just understand that he can't scream at the top of his lungs when he's in the crate?

I have no place I can put him in the house that we can't hear him, and the garage is too cold (it't was -12F this morning). When he's out of this crate...he's a dream.

I'm leaning towards an e-collar, but is he just too young? Or, is an e-collar a inappropriate tool for keeping him quiet in his crate? I'm sure everyone here has a strong opinion on this question...

Thanks,
Christian

Have you tried putting the crate in your bedroom, beside your bed?

I also have a 'routine' in my life that I know helps my dogs. It usually involves ignoring the dogs when I'm doing it, whether preparing to leave the house, or go to bed. The last thing I do (for either) is go to the treat jar, tell the dog to 'go to your crate' and then go to my bedroom, toss in the treat, dog follows, and then I LEAVE THE HOUSE IMMEDIATELY. I don't talk to the dog, don't make a big deal, but I leave.

At night, same thing, do my 'get into the pjs and brush my teeth' thing, go to the treat jar and get a treat, go to my room, toss in the treat/enter the dog, and then I get into be immediately. I always read for awhile, so I'm still up with the light on, the dog is right beside me within reach for reassurance. And so we all wind down together before the lights off.

It may initially help your dog to have a 'bigger' treat, like a food filled kong (I mean chock full of yummy peanut butter, cream cheese, etc.), for the wind down.

And have you read the book The Dog Listener, by Jan Fennell? Thing there is alot of dog behavioral information that would help in your situation. NOT an obedience book, so that's a nice thing.

And you say you are exercising your pup, and it may be enough for some pups but yours may need more. I know I can hike, with my dogs off leash, for hour(s) and my pups still can have alot of get up and go. So it's not that I 'think' it's enough exercise, or it 'should' be enough exercise. If my pup is still the 'Energizer Bunny' then I may need to increase to what THE PUPPY needs.