I don't usually have much to say I prefer to read but hear goes,
First, both parvo and carona can afect adults not just puppies, several years ago my entire neighborhood of dogs came down with it, all adult dogs. My vet said it is infact airborn where parvo is from feces. The dogs that were treated right away recovered within a couple of days, It hits hard and fast.
Second parvo can affect adults although it primarly hits the puppies and old dogs. I agree that if the parents have the imune sytem to these ie: shots, the pups may not get the virus, My neighbors had a litter of pups and neither parents were vacinated, several of the pups came down with parvo and died. My 8 1/2 yr old female picked up the virus from the ground where the pups played, she survived fine but i did catch it in time, and because of prior training new what to do for her. I checked with my vet and described the symtoms to him he believes as i do that she definatly had parvo. Then i told him she hadn't had her shots since she was 2, he was amazed that she survived. I have noticed as i look back that when i was vacinating her she had a few skin problems that she hasn't had since. I do believe that if the dogs are healthy and the owners pay attention to their animals ie: recognizing a problem and seeking help that most will survive both viruses. My young male has had all his puppy shots and when his yearly comes around i will have his system checked rather then just doing as my vet says. I'm fortunate that my vet is open minded about such things and is always willing to work with me when doing things that are new or differant.
By the way thanks for all the great adivise i get here you wouldn't believe the differance it has made in working with my young male. Keep up the good work. TM <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Here is a bit more information.

Vaccinations Not Recommended For Dogs
By: Dr. Bob Rogers D.V.M.

Multiple components in vaccines compete with each other for the immune system and result in lesser immunity for each individual disease as well as increasing the risk of a reaction.

Canine corona virus is only a disease of puppies less than six weeks of age (15- p20). It is a rare, self-limiting disease (i.e. dogs get well in 3 days without treatment)(3). Corona virus does not cause disease in adult dogs.

Cornell University and Texas A&M University have only diagnosed one case each in the last 7 years. For a veterinarian to make a diagnosis of Corona Virus based on clinical signs is highly presumptive. Only electron
microscopy of feces can verify canine corona virus. This is only done at places such
as Texas A & M Diagnostic Laboratory.
Immunologists have reason to believe that the vaccine does not work. Mucosal secretory IgA antibodies would be necessary to protect a dog against this disease & an injectable vaccine will not provide this type of
protection.(13,19- p18, 21) I see no justification for the use of corona virus
vaccine.

In 1985 a significant number of dogs died from encephalitis caused by Corona Virus vaccine. (3, 21) An unfortunate & heartbreaking catastrophe caused by an unnecessary vaccine.

Leptospirosis vaccine is a common cause of adverse reactions in dogs ranging from life threatening anaphylactic reactions to mild facial swelling and urticaria. Most of the clinical cases of leptospirosis reported in dogs in the U.S. are caused by serovars (or types) grippotyphosa, L. pomona and L.
bratislava.(1,9, 15-p20, 21) The vaccines contain different serovars canicola and
ictohemorrhagica! Cross protection is not provided and protection is short-lived.(19)

New Vaccines recently by Fort Dodge include - L. grypothyposa. I still do not recommend these vaccines. Records at Texas A & M
Diagnostic Lab showed no cases of Leptospirosis in dogs in Texas in 1999.
This vaccine should not be given to puppies less than 16 weeks of age as they are very immunosuppressive. They can interfere with immunization against parvo & distemper. The risk of side effects outway any benefits.

Side effects to Lymes disease vaccine include kidney damage and immune mediated joint disease. Because of the questionable efficacy & common side effects, most veterinary schools do not recommend this vaccine.

Lyme disease prevention should emphasize early removal of ticks. Ticks must be attached to the dog for 24 hrs to transmit the disease. Amitraz collars are more effective than Top Spot as amitraz paralyzes the ticks mouth parts preventing transmission of disease (11). Top Spot or Frontline takes 24-48 hours to kill ticks allowing for the possibility of disease transmission.
Vaccinating pets against lyme disease does not provide any protection for the owners.
--------------------

According to Dr. Schultz in the Journal of the AVMA Aug. 15. 1995, when a vaccination series given at 2, 3, and 4 months and again at 1 year with a modified live virus, puppies and kittens program memory cells that
survive for life, providing lifelong immunity (6, 15, 20, 21).

Dr. Leland Carmichael at Cornell University and Dr. Schultz have studies showing immunity against challenge at 7 years for canine distemper and 7 years for parvovirus; and immunity by serology out to 15 years. (22). Studies for longer duration are pending (5, 13, 14, 15, 18, 22).
There are no new strains of parvovirus as one manufacturer would like to suggest. Parvovirus vaccination provides cross immunity for all types.

Hepatitis (Adenovirus)- (CAV2) is one of the agents known to be a cause of "kennel cough." Only vaccines with CAV-2 should be used as CAV-1 vaccines carry the risk of "hepatitis blue-eye" reactions and kidney damage.
Hepatitiis (CAV1) in dogs is a very rare disease.
Bordetella Parainfluenza Commonly called "kennel cough," this vaccine is
recommended only for those dogs boarded, groomed, taken to dog shows,or for any reason housed where exposed to a lot of dogs. The intranasal vaccine provides more complete and more rapid onset of immunity with less chance of reaction (23).
Immunity requires 72 hours and does not protect from every cause of "kennel cough." Immunity to bordetella is of short duration
(4-6 months), so vaccination should be repeated as needed. Dogs kept at home are
at very low risk for these diseases, so vaccination is not necessary.

---------------------
New Principles of Immunology

Dogs' & cats' immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus (MLV) vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces an immunity which is good for the life of the pet (i.e. canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper)(15- p35, 20, 21, 23) If another MLV vaccine is given a year
later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of second vaccine, and there is little or no effect (8,15,16,19) The titer(level of immunity) is not "boosted" nor are more memory cells induced.

Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary (6),they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions & immune mediated hemolytic anemia (4, 21) (a disease where the dog rejects its' own
blood -shown to be caused by MLV vaccines.
There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims forannual administration of modified live virus vaccines.

Puppies receive antibodies through their mother's milk (colostrum)the very first time they nurse. This natural protection can last 8 - 14 weeks.Puppies & kittens should not be vaccinated at less than 8 weeks. Maternal
immunity will neutralize the vaccine & little protection (0 -35%) will be produced
(6,7, 11, 13, 20, 21, 23).

Here is some information on the polio vaccine:

Stephen C. Marini, MS., D.C., Ph.D.
Professor of microbiology and immunology since 1975, he is currently also involved in continuing education programs in neuro-immunology and optimum immunity. He provided Dr. Lanctot with the following statement:

"I respectfully suggest that the scientific evidence is compelling that the "No Vaccine" option is the only one which will result in no cases of vaccine associated polio... Further, this option will contribute to the overall better health of children by eliminating the dangerous interference with
the natural and optimal functioning of the human immune and nervous systems which occurs whenever vaccines are used to artificially manipulate the immune system.

The rationale for this position stems from published, and unpublished scientific data and other information which provide evidence against the continued use of polio vaccines and vaccines in general:

1) Evidence supporting discontinuation of the use of oral polio vaccine (OPV): The oral polio vaccine is produced by growing viruses on monkey tissues, rather than using human cell lines. The presence of adventitious agents, such as simian retroviruses (SV4O)... represent contaminants of such vaccines... The safety of using the live oral polio vaccine to passively vaccinate close contacts of recipients (herd immunity), has never been
scientifically demonstrated, licensed or regulated even though it has been used as an official polio disease control strategy for more than three decades. There is a real question as to whether this has been
scientifically irresponsible and a serious breach of public trust. Significantly, the cause of human cases of polio in the U.S. the past two decades has been attributed solely to the oral polio vaccine.

Conclusion: The use of oral polio vaccine should be discontinued.
2) Evidence supporting discontinuation of (injected) inactivated polio vaccine (IPV):
The routine administration of this vaccine negates development of gut immunity which is essential for defense at the site of primary
multiplication of the polio virus... In considering both the preparation
and use of the polio virus vaccine, Dr.Jonas Salk (the vaccine's founder) has stated: "The objective in the preparation and use of a poliomyelitis vaccine cannot include the knowing or willful acceptance of a risk that is tangible, or measurable to any degree. Any risk that is involved, so long as it is recognized, must be corrected, whatever may be its cause.

Conclusion: The use of inactivated polio vaccine should be discontinued.
3) Evidence supporting the discontinuation of the use of all vaccines: There is historic epidemiological evidence that the incidence and severity of infectious diseases wanes in populations over time... as the human immune system naturally adapts to the challenge... Data also suggests that the diseases of childhood are necessary for appropriate development, maturation and function of the individual immune and nervous systems....
Furthermore, progress in the field of psychoneuroendocrinimmunology, has led some
researchers to conclude that vaccines in general may not only be impacting
negatively on the human immune system, but may also be adversely effecting the neurologic and psychologic development and function of the vaccine recipient. The impact of artificial immunity on immune, neurologic, endocrine, and psychologic systems has not been scientifically
elucidated.

There is no credible scientific data to demonstrate that the injection of
multiple antigens simultaneously into a baby, particularly a baby under
the age of one year, is safe and effective. There is no credible scientific evidence to negate the hypothesis that vaccines cause immediate or delayed damage to the immune and nervous systems of children resulting in a rise in auto-immune and neurological disorders including asthma, learning
disabilities, hyperactivity, autism, chronic fatigue syndrome, lupus, diabetes, epilepsy, multiple sclerosis, Guillain-Barre Syndrome, and other diseases.

There is no assurance that the agency charged with detailing and reporting
adverse events following immunizations is not ethically constrained by its
conflicting responsibility of promoting vaccines.

Conclusion: The universal compulsory vaccination of all healthy children should be halted.

Summary: There is growing public awareness of the significance of alternative measures, such as proper nutrition, exercise, rest, positive mental outlook and the maintaining of neurologic integrity, as powerful
instruments for immunologic enhancement and defense against disease. There is increasing recognition among health care practitioners that the human body has an innate ability to protect and heal itself when allowed to
function optimally without interference.

Educational conduits which target the largest number and widest socio-economic cross-sections of the public should be used to reinforce the concept that wellness is a way of life and can only be achieved by
employing preventive health care strategies which enhance, not suppress or interfere
with, the natural functioning of the human immune system. In recognition of the need to enhance the innate human immune capacity to resist infectious diseases such as polio, health and wellness advocates of the 21St
century support the "No Vaccine" option."

Selected extracts taken from The Trial of the Medical Mafia by Jochim Schafer ISBN 2921783029.

Reproduced with permission of Here's The Key Inc, CP309, Waterloo, Qc JOE 2NO, Canada.

In addition, take a look at this link to see how the polio vaccine is linked to many cases and types of cancer in people.
http://www.viewzone.com/sv40.html

Originally posted by Shandar:
All cases of Polio since the 1960's (admitted by the founder of the polio vaccine before congress in the U.S.) were caused by the polie vaccine.

Laureen responds:

This is not the complete truth and is very misleasing. It irks me that this kind of misinformation abounds on the net and people believe it as gospel.

Larueen perhaps you could expound a bit on your comments?

I checked my sources and these are the direct quotes:

"Jonas Salk, inventor of the IPV, testified before a Senate subcommittee that
nearly all polio outbreaks since 1961 were caused by the oral polio vaccine."


"It is officially admitted that all cases of polio in the US, since the introduction of the vaccine, are caused by the vaccine. The same has been seen in Australia and other countries like England. So the occurrence of the same phenomenon all around the world would be asking too much of coincidence." -

Dr Viera Scheibner, "Vaccination: The Medical Assault on the Immune System" 1993.

It's amazing how 'safe' can mean something completley different to each person. It is a proven, unarguable fact that some children die from vaccination. And yet they are "safe." Maybe I don't understand what "safe" means? LOL

Tara,

In this case "safe means that if 50 are injured by the vaccine and 500,000 are injured by the disease then it is safe. Not great if you are one of the 50, wonderful if you are one of the 500,000.

As an FYI, this year we did titers on 2 of our dogs. Of the 3 vaccines that could be checked each dog was not immune to 2 of 3.

Richard, When was the last time you had given any vax...just curious....I am about to check my pups blood levels in another week or so..he just had his last vax about 1 week ago and I need to be sure he is protected since he goes to work with me a lot at the clinic. I like only having to give what is needed and at least more vets are now accepting bloodwork in place of vax history for boarding and such. I know we do anyway....

Both are adults and were vaccinated last year.

please everyone if you will, what does everyone suggest for dogs/puppies. from birth until.......

everyone has such different opoinions, and you read something which you think you can rely on and there is even argument with that. I am realy confused as to what would be the safe thing to do for my puppy. what has been the safest and most sure fire thing for all of you?
Bounette

I think you get all their shots when they are pups that's it. You don't need to get them for a three year period once they're grown.

You may have to get rabies shots though yearly because of laws. I think this is what they say here, but I could be wrong. (Others here will know)

After it becomes 1yr old, fast it once a week. This will help the immune system. Don't fast your female though while she's in heat. Feed it once a day after it's 1yr old. Dogs aren't apes. They don't graze. They're predators and predators eat this way.

You may want to take notes when you get several things you see here and then you can refer to them. There's SO much wrong info out there that's cost me for years. EVERYTHING I've followed since coming to this site has worked immediatley. The sad part is alot of info that's wrong is "correct." I've learned many things since coming here. A)Doctors and Vets don't necessarily know S___ about this, AKC Judges, TV people or writers who're supposedly :rolleyes: -specialists- :rolleyes: don't necessarily know either. I've been lead astray a million times by people who should know.