Quote: Alyssa Myracle

Having the down command as solid as the recall, means the dog will drop like a rock where it is, and remain out of harm's way.

That's a great suggestion, and one we need to work on. I made the typical newbie trainer's error of teaching a down from the sit position...

 Quote: Nora Ferrell

I now realize that the feeble recall I had was only half-assed and useless.

Of course, she would come in the house and most times outside. Until that day.........

Exactly my problem. I think I trained my dog to come when he felt like it, and until now, he always felt like it. That day, he didn't.

Alyssa: Thanks, again, for your very informative and detailed posts. In my case, I am certain my dog knew what I wanted him to do, but we have definitely NOT practised a formal recall using a specific word that means a specific thing (drop what you are doing and get your butt over here NOW) and proofed under different circumstances.

He knew what I wanted, but did not know that there were consequences for not obeying.

Up till now, the recall had been a more informal thing (hey buddy, come over here).

So first thing: train him on lead using markers so that he knows exactly what I want and how I expect him to do it. Next, show him that he doesn't have the option.

 Quote: Alyssa Myracle

While you are thinking about training the recall, also consider teaching the down out of motion.
Sometimes recalling the dog puts it in danger- as in, it may return across a busy street and be struck.

Having the down command as solid as the recall, means the dog will drop like a rock where it is, and remain out of harm's way.

This is an AWESOME suggestion and works like a charm, especially if you ultimately train it at every speed, in all circumstances.

great thread. Things talked about I never thought of doing. Wonderful!

There is a great DVD out there called "Really Reliable Recall" that is a great one for every one to watch.

The concept is that you train the dog using a new word that has not been associated with blowing off the handler (sound familiar?) and have the new word become more like an ingrained response. The example she uses is that we people have that blow off recall as well, like when the kids or husband call you and you say, "I'll be right there!" BUT when you hear that blood curdling scream from your child or hear you husband call you in that urgent way, you drop everything and RUN. You can't help it, it is ingrained. You train in a way that the dog can't help it.

If one does not wish to buy the DVD, then the trainer (Leslie Nelson) has also written a book by the same name.

Like Alyssa, I have a solid down at very high speeds; it is half of the send out in Schutzhund. In those situations where I don't want to recall for inability to enforce it, I use the down command. I have used that one so much that when Quinn sees an off leash smaller dog approaching him, he will automatically down with his little tail stub moving a mile a minute.

Alyssa, I will be first in line to buy your dog training book when it comes out.

Seriously!

Connie's too, and Jessica's, and just about everyone else who offers advice on this board.

Luckily for us, you're giving away good stuff for free.

I've learned a lot from this topic. I, too, had trained my dog to come when he felt like it.



Edited by Meredith Hamilton (07/17/2009 11:27 AM)
Edit reason: more to say

The new word is always a good start when you have a tainted recall word.

I was explaining to Nora (not what you meant, but it reminded me) also about part of the proofing being different tones of voice. This is a high-level proofing (to me), but after a lot of foundation work, including many many venue changes and lots of varying distractions, I make a kind of ongoing game of changing the stress level in my recall voice (starting slowly and always making sure that the marker voice is back to normal) until the dog complies with an angry shout just as well as to a happy call.

Bob Scott told me about doing this, and I saw immediately how smart it was. Even if we can control ourselves so that we never use an angry shout, we can't control the tone of the recall perfectly.

Just another good proof.

P.S. Another is to call with your back to the dog. Not particularly high-level (as in, I don't save this one for later), but it might surprise you to have someone tell you how confused your dog looks if you have not been doing it regularly.

 Quote: connie sutherland

P.S. Another is to call with your back to the dog. Not particularly high-level (as in, I don't save this one for later), but it might surprise you to have someone tell you how confused your dog looks if you have not been doing it regularly.

I like making a game of "odd-proofing".

Stand on top of the picnic table, and give commands. She if the dog will come onto the table for the sit-front.

Lay down and recall the dog.

And so forth...

A lot of great input here. Sorry to get back to this one late.

The only thing I don't fully agree with is the approach/correct/drag method. This only works sometimes for some dogs. It is a good way to teach a dog to avoid your approach. I used to use this method as a way of reinforcing the recall, when refused. This method creates a direct association of correction and unpleasantness with the handlers approach. It is affective the first time but rarely is after that unless the cause for the refusal has been addressed in training.

I have used possitive word associations with great success in cases of near refused recalls. Recalls are refused or ignored or not even noticed because of distraction. You need to be able to break through that barrier of distraction - a command is sometimes not enough.

What I mean by possitive word associations is I teach the dog names of toys and rewards (as well as rooms and objects etc) using an introduction of "Want your/the ____ ?" to get the dogs attention, then "Lets go get your/the ______" and you go to where it is kept or prepared, then simply say the name of the item when you give it to the dog.

If you find yourself in a situation where the distraction is something that has not been addressed in training/proofing the recall, you can use the offering of the reward item as a way to get the dogs attention and insert the recall into the offering. This removes the conflict of making a dog choose to either ignore the temptation of the distraction or ignore you in favor of that temptation or distraction by making it a direct offering of a great reward.

Example: Dog's name is Fido and he loves a PB Kong more than anything in the world. Word is "Kong" and recall is "Come/come here." Fido is distracted by an unproofed distraction while off lead.

"Fido, want your Kong?" dog looks back at you. "[Come here] and lets go get your [Kong!]" Fido comes running, put him on lead and happily go get him his Kong.

This requires some work if you actually want to use it and still have it be affective but it can be a great tool in helping break through a distraction to give you a better chance of a successfull recall.

I don't think it is the only thing you should use, it should be offered if the first recall is refused, or you are unsure if the distraction is too much and don't want to risk a refusal.

I recommend a varied bag of tricks for teaching and reinforcing the recall. Never assume the dog will come no matter what, be able and willing to assess the situation and whether or not your work on the recall has addressed the current distraction.

I do agree with utilizing distractions for reinforcement/proofing. The local wildlife keeps me on my toes with my training! If anyone is interested I will start a new thread on word associations, or if I was unclear I will try to explain better.