This has turned into a confusing thread for all involved! So glad we're finally on the same page so we can actually help Judy!

<Sigh of relief>

Judy,

I watched Ed's "Training Personal Protection Dogs" DVD a while back and came across something that might be of use to you.

Now this DVD seems to be an older one, so maybe Ed has changed his method since then, but he dealt with teaching food refusal to a dog.

The idea is that because we're asking the dog to do something unnatural and hard to understand at first (refusing yummy food), we keep the training very low-key and easy on the dog at first.
In the DVD, the handler is sitting on the ground relaxing with his dog and a stranger tosses food to the dog. The handler simply puts his hand on the dog's face and gently redirects his attention away from the food.
Every time the dog looks or sniffs at the food, the handler calmly and gently pushes the dog's face away from it (saying a quiet gentle "no") and focuses its attention back on himself.

The dog quickly learns what is expected, and the handler starts adding distance.

Eventually, when the dog knows the exercise (ignore the food), the handler can step up the corrections and goes further and further away from the dog, eventually leaving the training field.

Ed says to repeat this exercise under as many different situations as you can (including at home in the yard) until the dog is solid.

I'm guessing that taking food from a stranger and going up to stranger to get loved on would be discouraged the same way.

Could you try something like that on your walks?

Maybe have someone walk up to you and talk, with Gunnar by your side. If he tries to go up to the person or nuzzle them, just gently pull his face away from the person and back towards you, saying "no" or "nein" in a gentle tone. Keep repeating this until he gets it (praise every time he chooses to ignore the person on his own).

You can gradually increase the distraction level (someone he knows, in the yard, a group of kids) as well as the level of correction for "breaking".

Include the food refusal too - I personally don't want my dogs taking food off the ground or treats from people.
Not worried about poisoning but of them getting fed junk (you know, pet shop treats, yuck).

If you never want him to fuss over people (besides family) that could work. If you want it to be on a permission-only basis, then maybe use a command & a release so that you can tell him when it's ok to go get loved up


I realize that the food-refusal training may not be foolproof when the dog's on his own, but obviously in your case it's not like you're leaving Gunnar out in the yard for hours on end to fend for himself so I don't see why this wouldn't work.

If I were in your situation, I'd give that method a try. The training shown in the DVD was very easy on the dog - very little conflict. The whole thing was relaxed (with the handler sitting on the grass, petting and talking to his dog the whole time) and the dog quickly picked up the training.


Good luck!!


(PS: while my young male was always very aloof with strangers and never accepted treats from them, my female was impossible to train in terms of ignoring strangers. She's such a damn suck for attention -- you'd think we never pet her at home! After 10 years of this, I tried the above method on her and it was a very quick fix - without ever giving a single correction!
In her case, I only need her to behave in my presence, I don't leave her unattended in the yard anyway.
She seems fine BTW - I don't think I destroyed her spirit by doing this, hee hee )

Just my perspective on this whole issue - we teach our children not to talk to strangers, even if the stranger initiates the talk, why not teach our dogs, whether they're pets or working dogs involved in any type work. It's a safety issue, even for a pet (not just a working dog). I don't think guide dogs are encouraged to be friendly with every Tom, Dick or idiot. They're encouraged to ignore. They're working and can't be lollygagging with everyone who wants to pet them. I don't know enough to know how a guide dog is trained, but I'm willing to bet they don't take treats either.

So to me, this is still a training issue, to not take treats from anyone but Judy and her son, and to ignore people unless Judy gives the OK. Judy can give the OK anytime she wants, but it's to Gunnar's benefit and safety that he waits for the OK first.

No one gives my dog treats (which amounts to feeding). I wouldn't allow it, bad habit for the dog to get into. I want him tuned in and alert to all possibilities, to be discerning, and getting treats from strangers puts him in the wrong frame of mind, whether he is intended as a pet or as a working dog. It's the same lessons we teach our children. If we don't say it's ok, then it's NOT ok.

 Quote:

If you never want him to fuss over people (besides family) that could work. If you want it to be on a permission-only basis, then maybe use a command & a release so that you can tell him when it's ok to go get loved up.

that's an excellent strategy that i've used very successfully myself for my dog who lives for playing with other dogs.

turn the petting and attention into a reward he gets for obeying you. when you see people who he wants to interact with, put him in a sit/stay. he gets the attention he craves as a reward for the sit/stay, after you release him.

do this under very controlled circumstances at first, in your house, then in your yard, with friends, then neighbors, then complete strangers to the dog.

get to the point where the rewards are intermittent: he doesn't always get the attention when he sit/stays. pretty soon he will be offering the sit/stay as a way to ask if he can be petted by the stranger, and will look to you for the release.

bingo, you will have his attention focused on you, you'll have a reliable sit/stay, and you'll have him only seeking attention when you give permission. it's a win/win/win.

Whoa! That's the first time I've had 6 replies appear while I was making a post!!

Seems like you really hit a nerve on people with this post Judy

I understand what you want - my guess is that it was your comment on the FedEx guy that put people on the wrong track. You said something like "how did he get into the yard and all the way to the door with the dog there? Gunnar never even barked"...

Are you only interested in having him ignore people (for his safety) or do you eventually want to train him to alert by barking when someone walks into the yard?

Either way, your posts made sense to me. Don't worry about people misunderstanding you and bashing you for something you didn't say - frustrating I know (I had to deal with that too, lol) but it's not your fault

 Quote: alice oliver

well, thanks, amber, for taking a moment to explain. i've never met the dog, so i can't see the extremeness of how friendly he is.

I can't believe you. That, Alice, is exactly why I gave you all the scenarios of how friendly he is! So you can see the "extremeness" of how friendly he is!!!! What part of those examples did you NOT understand???

i understand she wants to change his behavior, not his temperament. i'm asking why. i see friendliness in a pet as a positive thing.

Yes Alice, to state the obvious, we all think friendliness is a positive thing but not in ALL situations.

that doesn't mean i think he should be allowed to approach raccoons or chase after every dog that crosses his path. and yes, of course he should be taught to focus on her when she's walking him or working with him.

but i definitely do want my dog to be appropriately friendly to children, neighbors, and service people like ups and the postman.

Where did you see in any of my posts that I don't want him being appropriately friendly to children, neighbors and service people like the ups and postman??? Why exactly, can't he just ignore them? That to me is appropriately friendly. Did I state anywhere that I want him to run the UPS man into the bushes? Did I state anywhere that I want him to learn how to snarl at the neighbor?

she said she was upset that he likes the neighbor kid and the fed ex guy. i'm honestly saying i don't see why that is a problem. it seems like it's a good thing.

I'm upset that he took a treat from a complete stranger. I am upset that he never let out one little bark. The Fed Ex guy has never been here before, yet Gunnar never alerted me to his presence. How can I make you understand...his friendliness is like riding in the back of an open bed truck - it's OK until it's not!!

throwing at me all the other situations in which it is a problem doesn't answer my question.

You're not listening. I repeatedly answered you by giving you several examples of how his friendliness can get him in trouble. That, Alice is why I want his friendliness reiged in.
It explains to you, for the millionth time, that he is so utterly friendly that it's downright dangerous (raccoon, taking treats from strangers).

as for the risk of theft, as so many others have already said, she isn't going to be able to theft-proof this dog. she's going to have to not leave him outside unsupervised.

Alice, based on the PMs and other posts, you are the only one who still doesn't get it. I'm not going to respond again because I've already gotten the training help I need. Thank you to everyone else for the great tips and the great start.

I am, like Amber (and others) very relieved to see that you have a handle on and a direction to go for further training with Gunnar.

Like I said before, I honestly believe, in time, you'll have a good shot at getting him to stay focused on you, to look to *you* for what to do in the approaching strangers situations. As for how he behaves when you are not around, thankfully, that is not often, so no urgent worries there.

One last thing, I am glad to be reading about a friendly dog problem instead of a frothing manaic aggression case.

 Quote: michele mcatee

One last thing, I am glad to be reading about a friendly dog problem instead of a frothing maniac aggression case.

Hear hear Michele!!!

I'm also getting a little tired of those "my dog keeps growling and biting my kids, chewing up the house and is housebroken but still poops on the carpet, but I don't want to use a crate or a prong because it's mean..." types of posts

This was a refreshing change from the "usual"...

 Quote: yuko blum

This was a refreshing change from the "usual"...

What? Refreshing for you maybe! I now have an eye twitch, breathing difficulties, high blood pressure and a drinking problem from this thread !

I'm going to print out the thread because there were a lot of great tips such as putting Gunnar more behind me than on my side if I'm talking to a stranger, etc. And so many tips in the PM department, I have to sort them all out too but I have a roadmap now.

To anyone who I didn't return their PM yet, I'm trying...there have been so many of you that helped me out via PMs I couldn't keep up ! Thank you so much for taking the time.

Hmm, now where did I see that Valium? I know it's around here somewhere .

I think I would rather have your "problem" than the one I am dealing with now.
My pup is just over 1 year old and he is going through this "I'm the toughest thing on the face of the earth" stage.

I have no doubt he would bite someone who wandered onto my property if he could, hell he will take offense if someone walks within 250 feet of my property.

Its like he feels he MUST impose his dominance over everything that lives and breathes, it can get pretty annoying at times.

He is fine with other dogs only if they bow down to his authority at the moment, people he will tolerate if I am present.

Being a 110.6 lb black German Shepherd is enough of a deterent in my opinion without his "I am king of all I survey" attitude.

I say count yourself lucky.