Re: BARF For my GSD
[Re: Lee Ziegler ]
#14598 - 08/15/2003 12:36 PM |
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Chad a number of your comments are stupid. If you don't like the raw diet then don't feed it, but don't talk stupid here - which is what you are doing.
Not everything a dog eats is food. I have seen dogs eat dog shit, garbage and god knows what else.
As far as bones go - I will bet anyone that 99.999% of the problems that Vets see with dogs and bones are with cooked bones where people give their dog a steak bone or te dog goes in the trash and gets a chicken bone.
I have been feeding raw for over two years. My dogs are healtheir than they have ever been in the 40 plus years of owning dogs.
No one should walk away from a raw diet based on what Chad has written here.
If people are serious they should look into what they need to do to feed RAW or an ALL_NATURAL DIET (I hate the term BARF it reminds me of a bad night out drinking).
The sad thing is the Veterinary industry is almost totally uneducated in nutrition - they get about 4 hours of nutrition training in their entire college career. If anyone thinks that the dog food companies are going to do or release information on a study that shows a well balanced raw diet is better than pouring nutrition from a bag well thats simply not going to happen. Vets get the information on Nutrition from dog food salesmen.
Chad if you are such an expert write your own book. But don't be bashing the raw diet when you have not fed it.
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Re: BARF For my GSD
[Re: Lee Ziegler ]
#14599 - 08/15/2003 12:40 PM |
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Bottom line is I believe that everyone should make their own decisions based on what is comfortable for them and their dogs.
Chad, you don't have to be so condescending...it really is getting old. :rolleyes:
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Re: BARF For my GSD
[Re: Lee Ziegler ]
#14600 - 08/15/2003 12:54 PM |
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Chad, your comparison with the human's nutrition being bad is not really fair. In MOST cases, people know what they should eat, but the do not choose to. I know in my case I am very mindful of my dogs diet, but at the same time I ate a piece of greasy hawaiian pizza for lunch. If I had half as much resolve when dealing with what goes in MY mouth as I do with what I feed my dogs, I would be a MUCH healthier person!
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Re: BARF For my GSD
[Re: Lee Ziegler ]
#14601 - 08/15/2003 01:08 PM |
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Ed,
I fail to see what in my posts you consider any more stupid than what others have posted.
I do agree with you about Vet's and their nutritional education:
"The sad thing is the Veterinary industry is almost totally uneducated in nutrition - they get about 4 hours of nutrition training in their entire college career."
Which is why I find it particularly interesting that you recommend Billinghurst's (a veterinarian with no additional nutrition training evident by either publications in peer-reviewed journals or by additional degrees) book.
The only reason I post information about the pit-falls of made at home diets is that the nutritional status of some animals can affect the health status of the entire population. (If interested see the studies on Selenium deficiencies causing viral mutations)
There are many people far more qualified than myself to write textbooks on animal nutrition, as well as many good textbooks already out there. I do, however, have far more knowledge about nutrition and biochemistry than any other contributor to your board (my appologies if I have overlooked someone who does not post often).
And for my last condesending remark of this rant...I have concumed about a pot of coffee per day for the last 8 years. I have more energy, better skin tone, and firmer bowel movements since drinking coffee than before. Does that mean that the coffee is making me healthier?
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Re: BARF For my GSD
[Re: Lee Ziegler ]
#14602 - 08/15/2003 01:08 PM |
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after years of flip-flopping doggie diets from one commercial food to another and back again, only to have reocurring health problems and new ones popping up......we finally went to the barf diet. (i hate the term, too. sounds gross.) it didn't take long at all to begin seeing positive results. i was worried about all the things the others have mentioned (bones, bacteria, etc) but my fears soon faded when i began seeing vitality in the coats and eyes of our dogs. they are eager to eat and have not experienced any digestive upsets. i'm sold on it and will NEVER again feed commercial dog food. i now feel guilty that i didn't switch years ago. i would just say to the people who are trying to make up their minds.....try it for a few weeks. if you really hate it or your dog has trouble with it you can always go back to kibble, but i don't think you will. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
if there are no dogs in heaven, then when i die i want to go where they went. ---will rogers |
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Re: BARF For my GSD
[Re: Lee Ziegler ]
#14603 - 08/15/2003 01:16 PM |
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I for one give Chad's post serious consideration since he is the only one with the resume to back up his comments. It's akin to having Flinks on here giving training advice compared to me and VanCamp! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Hmmmm, who are you going to listen to? And I respectfully submit that it is my experience as well to find that the chief accolade that BARFers give to the diet is the shinier, healthier coat - universally, it is the thing you read on every single natural diet board. Add a big tablespoon of vegatable oil to Ole Roy and you'll see identical results.
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Re: BARF For my GSD
[Re: Lee Ziegler ]
#14604 - 08/15/2003 01:28 PM |
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Lee,
If you are worried about the bones you could always try the product My Masters Choice It's a powder you add to raw ground meat and liver and it's a complete meal. You could also grind the bones if you are serious about doing the raw diet.
"The all natural diet folks treat nutrition like religion rather than science." (quote by Chad) If we really want to get technical nutrition is a religious thing but that's a whole other topic <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Good Luck with your decision.
Karmen,Dante,Bodie,Sabre,Capone
http://www.vogelhausgsd.com
Abraxas
6/29/91-9/22/00
"Some dogs come into our lives and quietly go,
others stay awhile and leave paw prints on
our heart and we are never the same" |
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Re: BARF For my GSD
[Re: Lee Ziegler ]
#14605 - 08/15/2003 01:36 PM |
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Re: BARF For my GSD
[Re: Lee Ziegler ]
#14606 - 08/15/2003 02:56 PM |
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Awwww, come on Chad, is goiter the best you can throw at me? I thought you would at least have picked smallpox or bubonic plague. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Agreed: life expectancies are on the increase. But what about the quality of life?
Back when I was in school there was always the ONE fat kid that was teased. Have you seen the school yard lately? Lets talk about diabetes, cancers, alzheimers, ritalin, prozac, zoloft, cerebrex, acid reflux 'disease', crohns, yes, it goes on. People are living longer, more miserable lives.
While I don't have the education and credentials that you have (which I respect), I still have a head on my shoulders and myself and others are capable of doing research. I didn't just read a couple of book, but also the testimonials of hundreds. Sorry if they weren't in a control group. I can also figure out the nutritional needs of my dog and supplement accordingly. Just because a dog food company sprays some roasted, toasted kibble with a vitamin fortified grease and then claim it is 100% RDA approved, well it's that big business thing again. (And I am typing with my tin foil hat on! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> )
BTW, I do remember somewhere back in high school that man has been on the earth for 100,000 years and there is evidence that he has been cooking his food for quite a while. I guess evolution would change our digestive system a bit, wouldn't ya think? And evolution is something that takes a bit more than 60 years, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Unfortunately humankind took a while to figure out the hygeine thing. Poor Dr. Sammelweis in 1847 who was proactive on his surgeons 'washing' their hands before chilbirth and reduced childbirth mortality from 12.4% to 1.27%. He was booed by his peers despite the odds and driven out. It still took them awhile to sterilize hospital conditions which occured long after his death. That wasn't that long ago!
Yes, throwing any ol' oil in the food will make shiny coats, but the testimonials I read have far more to contribute than that. Losing weight, allergies clearing up, improved mobility and energy, reduce medical conditions, it's all about the quality of life, not life expectancy. (But I seem to remember saying that before)
And Deanna, I'm with you, just last night I had pizza and I said to the DH that I was going to start eating like my dog! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Maggie |
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Re: BARF For my GSD
[Re: Lee Ziegler ]
#14607 - 08/15/2003 03:10 PM |
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Originally posted by Lee Baragona - Sch3FH2:
I for one give Chad's post serious consideration since he is the only one with the resume to back up his comments. It's akin to having Flinks on here giving training advice compared to me and VanCamp! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Hmmmm, who are you going to listen to? Lee, if the advice is on tracking, I’ll listen to you, then Flinks, then VC—nahhhhh, scrap VC . I’ve heard through the grapevine that Lee is the only person in the US to date to score 100 pts for FH2 with a HOT dog. Good enough for me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> . Now back to the subject.
I really have no strong personal opinions re the raw diet. I have never tried it due to time constraints and lack of motivation. My sentiments pretty much mirror those of RC:
“Don't get me wrong, I have been very impressed with the anecdotal info that is available.”
The enthusiasm of BARFers (sorry) is definitely contagious! As far as the religious aspect of it... well, some of my best friends feed raw <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> . Maybe one day I will see the light, especially if there is enough statistical data to prove that raw diet increases longevity.
There was nothing in Chad’s post that I would consider “stupid”. I, for one, would also like to hear the voice of dissent, especially if it comes from someone with an educated opinion, just so that I could arrive at my own semi-educated conclusions.
BTW, what are Chad's credentials?
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