Alright, I have posted on this before but could not implement the suggestions successfully and I am very frustrated.

My dog has great ball drive (he will chase a ball at lightning speed any time it is thrown). He will not bring it back properly though. 1st few throws he will bring it all the way to me or within 5 feet or so and if I have another ball he will drop it. After that he either drops it like 20 feet from me or he stops 20 30 feet short with it in his mouth and just looks at me. OR, he runs toward me and the turns and runs a circle around me basically playing keep away. With a very forceful drop it he will usually drop it but sometimes he will grab it again before I get it and try and keep it from me.

I have trieed 2 ball but it just doesn't work - he does the things described above. Ocassionally, I get a good series of retrieves if I use only one ball - he seems to realize that if there is only 1 ball I will need it to throw it - but still sometimes he acts the same way as described above or after 10 throws or so he will start acting up.

If he stops short and I call him - he always drops the ball and comes running to me. So calling him never works. I am at my wits end with this. I really want a solid reliable retrieve. I have tried 2 ball and refused to throw the ball until he brings it close - trying to incrementally increase the distance. It doesn't work - he usually stands there looking at me and not bringing the ball. And if I refuse to throw it long enough he will get distracted by smells, etc. and the game is over.

ANy help would be greatly appreciated - but refrain from the comment that my dog loves his ball more than me - thats just stupid (I got a lot of those the last time I posted this problem).

Don't know if this will help, but....did you try only tossing it a couple of feet away & keeping the dog on a line & as soon as he picks it up reel him back to you quickly with lots of praise? Or maybe giving a piece of hot dog when you reel him back to you & trade for the ball? Also, is there some other toy or even a stick that maybe he likes better than the ball. Also might try it in a small confined space like a kennel or the kitchen & see if it works better with less distractions than outside, at least until it is more solid. I'm probably not alot of help since my dog retreived on her own almost from day one but I reinforced it the way I discribed with a line & reeling her in. I never had the problem of her dropping the ball, though, so I'm not much help with that piece. I also did 2 ball once in a while, but hot often. I sometimes think that that makes them want to drop the ball to get the other one, & not necessarly to bring it to you & then drop it, so I was never much of a fan of that game. Besides, I wanted my dog to hold onto what I gave her until I asked her to drop or out it so I didn't promote the idea of 2 ball. I am sure that there are other more experienced trainers that can come up with some ideas for you. Good luck.

Matt,

IMO, your dog is either anticipating the next prey item, or is stressed over "out" or both. Also, maybe he tires quickly and has more drive than stamina?

Stop playing 2 ball.
Work on a long line.
Work in short sessions - sounds like that is less than 10 throws with your dog.
Don't throw the ball so far.
Work on into my arms.
In tugging with a prey item, step backwards and sit the dog in front.
When playing with a prey item, on a long line, call your dog to you enthusiastically (a game).
Work on sit front without a prey item.
Never out your dog in front, always on the side.


Now I want to hear what some more experienced trainers say. Please correct me if I am wrong!

Thanks for the advice. He also retrieved naturally as a young pup and I always reinforced it with an exchange for treats but somewhere around 7 or 8 months he started exhibiting this behavior.

I have worked him with a long line on and only throwing it within the line length so I can tow him in and he actually retrieves with a line attached. It just seems kind of boring throwing a ball such a short distance. I'll keep trying this.

I never use his tug for retrieves - maybe I'll try that. That worries me though as I also have major problems with him chewing his tug or ball on string during the Flinks drive exercises and in my arms.

I don't think it is a stamina issue - he never really tires but maybe it is a lack of drive. Sometimes it feels like he simply doesn't want to play. In other words, he would rather I didn't throw it so he didn't have to chase but he is compelled to chase anything that moves???

Is it okay to use the Prey item that I use for drive and obedience (small tug) for this retrieve game on a line?

Matt, tie him to the post, tease him with the ball on the string, when his drive is at the highest let him have it and play tug and command "hold" the whole time you are playing tug with him, pull hard and keep alot of tension on the string so that he won't let it go, praise him the whole time he is biting hard on the ball, then release tension and bring him into your arm and keep telling him to hold, he needs to feel comfortable in your arm, then free him and play tug again, what you are teaching him is it is fun playing ball with you and that it is ok to be near you with the ball and to hold it in his mouth, (prepare for the dumbell<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />, now if he drop the ball while he is in your arm then pick it up immediatly and put him back in drive. Do nothing but this for 5 days and you should have a crazy ball dog, then you might have issue with the out but that is not your concern right now, don't be discourage, your dog remind me of my dog when he was a pup but now he is great ball retrieve dog, actually now he will retrieve everything I send him out to retrieve including ducks and birds and he is a Mal. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Matt,

You have to stand before you can walk. Right?

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I also have major problems with him chewing his tug or ball on string during the Flinks drive exercises and in my arms.

Fix this first. It may seem frustrating or boring now, but you will never get the retrieve you want without this work being done well first. IMO, your dog should be able to hold a prey item calmly "into my arms" and in front before going to retrieve work.

My personal preference is to teach the dog each part of the retrieve separately with a prey item before putting it together and going to a dumbell. I haven't gotten to the putting it all together part yet; I have seen other people train in this way and get a very nice, accurate and solid retrieve.

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he actually retrieves with a line attached. It just seems kind of boring throwing a ball such a short distance. I'll keep trying this.

Work within your dog's abilities. Don't set him up to fail. It's not about distance, but accuracy and grip.

You don't have to worry about dogs chewing on their prey toys, if you don't train the Dumbbell as a toy. My dogs chew on their toys, and not on the Dumbbell at all. The Dumbbell is just an object which they learn to hold clam, it has no value to them as a toy, only a means to get their toy.

Getting the dog to bring back the ball is best done with a long line. Create play with the dog with the ball on the long line, then give his some space and work your way back to him without pulling him directly to you, and create play again. Soon the dog will value the play between the two of you more so than, the ball itself. Moving away from the dog as you gently reel him in is good. Or turning away and pretending to play with something on the ground, will cause him to venture closer and closer. You have to play with these things, but always make it fun when he comes back, and allow him to have the ball back again over and over.