What do you guys think???
#2751 - 05/14/2003 05:30 PM |
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Hello all, I have a question about Schutzhund dogs. Can a Akita be a Schutzhund dog??? I know that they are very protective and I have seen and heard of Akitas protectecting their guardians from some one attacking them on the street and burglers, and they had no protection training, and a breeder said they are naturally protective and need no training, but don't dogs in Schutzhund need training to know where to bite the helper and the OUT command??? They were also bred to track bear so are good trackers, and aren't said obedience stars, but the ones I see and mine is very obedient and well trained. So what do you guys think? I don't know much about Schutzhund and don't plan on learing Schutzhund training for a little while, but it is something I would like to learn and I want all the education I can get on it. What are good breeds to use for Schutzhund (besides GSDs and Dobermans)??? Thank you all for reading, and sorry this was so long, bye all.
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Re: What do you guys think???
[Re: Kathy Maus ]
#2752 - 05/14/2003 05:46 PM |
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No.
They lack sufficent drive to complete a SchH title.
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Re: What do you guys think???
[Re: Kathy Maus ]
#2753 - 05/14/2003 06:21 PM |
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Kathy, I disagree with Will on this one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
If your Akita has the drive needed to do Schutzhund work by all means try. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Sport work!
Yes, they are very good trackers, way more so then a lot of the SchH titled dogs. They have sufficeint tracking drive.( the akita's I've been around at least)
OB, is very frustrating in most cases. They learn very quickly but have a mind of their own.
"This is where you will have the most trouble titling the Akita"
Bits work is something they seem to like. Again, they have a mind of their own and I've had trouble getting the out perfected. (I'm sure the experts could have done more)
I didn't have the passion to try harder, or the knowledge. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
The thing to remember is that all dogs never attain a SchH 3 title but the owners enjoy the competition with the K-9 they have trained.
Give your AkITA a chance, have it tested by someone who has tested SPORT DOGS, not personal protection dogs as they are like NIGHT and DAY in the different needs required.
Good luck, keep us posted.
Butch Crabtree
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Re: What do you guys think???
[Re: Kathy Maus ]
#2754 - 05/14/2003 06:22 PM |
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A protective nature isn't the primary characteristic needed for a Schutzhund dog.
There are a lot of necessary attributes a dog will need to be successful in Schutzhund.
Mainly he will need a lot of prey drive and a good natural reflex to bite and hold. I don't think you will see that in most Akitas, honestly. They lack drive, and what little working ability that they could lay claim to in the past is a distant memory now.
The best breeds for Schutzhund are-
German Shepherd Dogs from European working bloodlines
Belgian/Dutch Shepherds (mainly Malinois) from Euro working lines
Rottweilers from Euro working lines
Doberman from Euro working lines
Giant Schnauzers from Euro working lines (if you can find them)
Beauceron from Euro working lines
Bouvier from Euro working lines (if you can find them)
BUT, doesn't mean you can't give it a try!!! It is fun to try, and you'll learn along the way.
Then you'll want a GSD! LOL
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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Re: What do you guys think???
[Re: Kathy Maus ]
#2755 - 05/14/2003 06:35 PM |
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Great post Robert, very positive and loaded with fact. The important thing is to later get a non- American GSD. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Butch Crabtree
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Re: What do you guys think???
[Re: Kathy Maus ]
#2756 - 05/14/2003 07:01 PM |
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Ummm..Butch, what was the number of Akita's that recieved a TD or TDX in the past couple of years? One...Skipjack's Urban Cowboy TD. Here a link to his owners page discussing the fact it took *FOUR* years to earn a TD ( and the dog failed several times before finally getting the title)http://www.akitanetwork.com/TrackingArticle.htm
Sorry, I still think they can't track. Period.
Obd? I have this months Front & Finish magazine in front of me, it has this years Delany Rating System results ( this goes by top 10 breed dogs for all breeds ). The top rated Akita only has a CDX and 26 total OTCH points - the number one rated GSD has a UDX/TDX and a total of 346 points. That's a big difference, I'd say. As a matter of fact, out of the Akita top 10 in Obd, only *3* have any type of title at all.
I owned and handled Akita's myself for about 5 years. I know their quirks and I think encouraging a novice owner to try SchH with a breed with literally no chance of success is kinda cruel.
You don't have to do SchH with a GSD, as Robert pointed out, but you do need to work with a breed that can handle the work. An Akita simply can't.
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Re: What do you guys think???
[Re: Kathy Maus ]
#2757 - 05/14/2003 08:17 PM |
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In the book, "The Intelligence of Dogs" by Stanley Coren, Akitas ranked #54 in "Working or obedience" intelligence. (pg 182-183) That puts Akitas behind such canine lights as Bichon Frise and ahead of bloodhounds and Pekingnese. So, they are probably not a good candidate for the high level of obedience needed for Schutzhund training.
GSD's were ranked #3 behind poodles and border collies. I've never figured out that poodle ranking.
Shepherds were also in the top rank for adaptive intelligence. This "adaptive intelligence" was a measure of the trainability, willingness to please, and ability to learn new tasks.
I can attest to the problem-solving of a GSD. Within about 30 minutes after I brought my shepherd home, he was pawing the fridge's ice dispenser, trying to figure out how to get ice cubes. He had seen me get ice cubes once.
My neighbor has an Akita. She's been socialized to be a nice enough dog. However, in 6 years, she has just about mastered come & sit. She seems to have an "I know how to do it, I just don't care what you say." attitude. Akitas may have more intelligence than that ranking credits, but they don't have the same desire to please the master that the more highly ranked dogs exhibit.
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Re: What do you guys think???
[Re: Kathy Maus ]
#2758 - 05/14/2003 08:36 PM |
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Well I'll stick my 1/2 cents worth in. Akita's are by nature
Dominant,Bull headed, Single minded, not openly friendly with strangers, some (mostly males)are Aggresive. They are also Very Intelligant, Independent. They had to be. They were put up against bears, they were expected to track and hold at bay until the hunters arrived, this requires them to hold the bear who is now corner (and very pi$$ed) without being injured. Not your average dumb dog.
Because they or stand offish with strangers this makes working them in prey prior to defense difficult at best. They are born defensive. Therefore they have to be nearly mature (3yrs old) before you can start doing any serious defense work. They are single minded and when they get something in their head you may pay he$$ get them to stop (out). Can they be trained in protection and still be safe YES! My male is proof of that. Can they compete. I honestly dont know. Someone who understands the breed and is willing to take the time and they have a an animal with the drives and desire to do for the handler then maybe. You would have to overcome their dog aggression, and their natural stand offish attitude with strangers. It is done in the show ring but those dogs are not bite/protection trained. I will say that a person that could compete and maybe title an akita would have a huge acomplishment. In closing I doubt you will see a lot of them on the field but who knows what the future holds. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Re: What do you guys think???
[Re: Kathy Maus ]
#2759 - 05/14/2003 08:51 PM |
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This thread is getting funny. Someone's neighbor's Akita can't learn to sit and so all Akitas are dumb and untrainable. lol
They look dumb, I don't know about untrainable. lol
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Re: What do you guys think???
[Re: Kathy Maus ]
#2760 - 05/14/2003 08:54 PM |
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What does DBD stand for??
A protection trained Akita and a Schutzhund Akita I think are two very different things.
I'd like to see a protection trained Akita.
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