I have not been on the forum in a long time. Last year I received help transitioning my border collie from a grain free dog food to Honest Kitchen because my dog was chronically constipated.

Because of the moisture content the Honest Kitchen has worked really well. I have been giving her chicken wings and leg quarters throughout the year. However, I am finding that she has become increasingly more interested in the raw than the Honest Kitchen. I have started the initial transition about a month ago, but am becoming a bit nervous because I don't want her to become malnourished. She has done well on the chicken, skin and all including chicken hearts and gizzards. However I did notice she was gaining too much weight and her constipation returned so I started to add the ground turkey next and broke the leg quarter in half (so one meal part leg quarter and one meal ground turkey). That has helped. I just started her this week very slowly on ground beef. I took a look at the sample diet on Leerburg as well as read Raw Dog Food and Work Wonders Feed Your Dog Raw Meaty Bones, but was wondering if you could take a look at what I am planning to make sure she is getting what she needs. I will be adding vitamin e and fish oil. I am on the fence about the veggies because I keep reading mixed information. She seems to really like eating things like carrots, so because of that I feel like I would like to include vegetables. Also, since she is prone to constipation, would I be better off just putting her back on honest kitchen (she is currently off of it) or do you think I can find the right balance of calcium? Any help would be appreciated.

Sample menu (she is 30lbs):
Monday
5.33 oz chicken leg quarter (drumstick)
4 oz (3 oz) ground turkey and (1 oz) chicken hearts and gizzards
One egg with shell

Tuesday
2 oz beef liver or kidney
2.66 oz chicken leg quarter (drumstick)

Wednesday
5 oz Mackerel
2.66 oz chicken leg quarter (drumstick)
One egg with shell

Thursday
5.33 oz chicken leg quarter (thigh)
4 oz ground beef (beef heart once ok on ground beef)

Friday
2 oz beef liver or kidney
2.66 oz chicken leg quarter (drumstick)
One egg with shell

Saturday
5.33 oz chicken leg quarter (thigh)
4 oz (3 oz) ground turkey and (1 oz) chicken hearts and gizzards

Sunday
1.25 oz of sardines
4 oz ground beef (beef heart once ok on ground beef)
One egg with shell


Edit: The other thing I forgot to mention is she had demodex mange as a puppy and she has a sever bee sting allergy (Anaphylactic reaction).

Congratulations on changing to raw!

We have many very experienced raw feeders, but I have to warn you that the weekend might be slow (people out training).

I'm heading out myself, but you will get help, even if it's not instant.

She won't be malnourished, so you can put that worry aside. Offering a wide variety of protein sources is key-- and your list looks good. Working beef and pork in to the rotation along with the chicken, turkey and fish would be great.

Constipation: that is a sure sign that there's too much bone in the diet. Simply adjust your ratio of RMB to muscle meat (meaning more muscle meat, less RMB). Also, don't forget that eggshells count as "bone"--in fact, one eggshell is enough calcium to balance a whole pound of boneless meat.

Veggies: there's no reason not to include them, as long as it's a small amount. Like 5-10% of the diet or less. The fiber in veggies can also help hold moisture in the stool. Greens and berries especially are nutrient dense, so if you're concerned about nutritional balance, these can boost the nutrition in a raw diet.

Also, about those eggs. I'd ditch the shells since you are already feeding so much bone. But you might also think about cooking them--just enough to cook the whites. An occasional raw egg is fine. But it looks like you feed them pretty often (as do I; they are a great and cheap protein source). There's a complicated issue with B vitamin absorption and raw eggs. (Google "biotin-avidin imbalance in eggs" if you care to read more.) The simple solution is to just cook the eggs, which changes the chemistry of the egg whites enough to overcome the problem. Like I said, I think eggs (cooked) are a terrific food for dogs. Without the shells you can count them as "muscle meat" when your weighing out meals.

For my pack, I find that the ideal ratio of bone to meat is this: about half the diet by weight is RMB. A little less than half is muscle meat, and the remainder, 10% or so is organ meat and veggies.

Greens and berries are high on my list, too. Parsley, zucchini guts, the dark outside romaine leaves, blueberries, celery tops .... such things are easily whirled in the blender into some good (meaning containing lots of active cultures) unflavored unsweetened yogurt, which IME eliminates any "eating around" the produce.

Here's a little more detail from an old post about the cooked-egg preference:

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

Researchers used to think that there was enough biotin in the yolk to make up for the avidin in the raw white.

But I have now read (in some dot-edu articles) that there is nowhere near enough .... that the biotin amount in an average egg was not even close to enough to neutralize all the avidin in the raw white .... So now I say to limit raw eggs to a couple a week per dog. .... Or do what many folks (like me) do: boil a bunch of eggs and gradually use those.

I would not give daily raw whole eggs, though, because I would be creating a biotin deficiency.

PS

Also, I would not leave on all (or even hardly any) of the shells if giving eggs regularly because of the amount of calcium in one shell.

I agree with everything in Tracy's post, of course ..... I just want to ask for a little more info: Is the dog constipated now?

If so, how constipated? (I'm asking in order to make a recommendation for the next meal, to fix that but not trigger diarrhea.)

No she is not constipated now. It seems doing half chicken leg quarter (thigh or drumstick) and half ground turkey or beef for the day has fixed that. So one meal with bone and one meal without for the day.

So should I reduce the amount of eggs without shells cooked even more? Maybe twice a week instead? Will there still be enough bone for her if I do this based on my menu I posted?

I say no limit on cooked eggs without shells. Boiled or scrambled. Use them like you would ground beef or turkey. They really are a terrific and underused food source, IMO.

I'm glad a simple tweak on the balance of foods proved the constipation. Once you get the hang of it--your dog's perfect balance-- it's easy-peasy. You want poops to be quite small and firm, requiring just a little effort to produce. This helps keep anal glands clean. But not so hard that the dog strains, or makes poops that are crumbly.

Yup, they are a good addition indeed! I too use cooked eggs as a good part of the "added boneless meat" part of the diet.

One thing is that a few dogs will get a little diarrhea if they get more than one or two eggs with yolks all at once after not having had them before (exactly as if you gave a bunch of a fatty meat to a dog who had only had, say, skinless chicken). But even that is simple to avoid: just don't give more than one of your cooked shelled eggs at a time until the dog is accustomed to them.

Again, using eggs as a regular ingredient requires caution about the shells. They are a wonderful calcium source, yes, but they have much too much calcium to add them carelessly to a balanced diet. Most dogs' diets will be balanced by the RMBs and won't need the eggshell to balance the egg phosphorus.

So with a dog who leans toward constipation already, I agree with Tracy that I would skip the eggshells.

I've been feeding raw for a few years now but have missed the benefit of cooked eggs without shells! SHOOT!!! With all those dang chickens outside, WHY didn't I pay more attention to this fact??? I've been feeding one raw egg per week with shell, and knew too many raw eggs were bad, but missed the benefit of COOKED eggs with no shells. Who said you can't teach an old dog (bitch) new tricks??? Hehehehe...

Have to add to the OP, my dogs, who eat raw daily, consider THK a HUGE treat, which just goes to show you, the grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side! LOL!

DOGS!!! Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em!

 Quote: Barbara Schuler

I've been feeding raw for a few years now but have missed the benefit of cooked eggs without shells! SHOOT!!! With all those dang chickens outside, WHY didn't I pay more attention to this fact???

Hey, I never really thought about it much or researched the nutrients, etc., as a substitute for part of the MM, until Tracy mentioned his hens and extra eggs maybe a year or two ago ..... I found zero reason for not considering them to be a good addition to a varied dog diet. I even found Mary Straus saying that cooked eggs without the shells were one of her top choices for improving a kibble diet with fresh foods.

Ever since then, I have considered them a lifesaver when the dog-food tub in the fridge has only RMBs in it.

Thanks for all of the advise.

Her stool looked fairly good this morning. I will continue to monitor.

Do I add the veggies and supplements once she has been doing well on all proteins?