Training a foster with IBS s/s and anxiety
#400916 - 05/19/2016 09:26 PM |
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Hello. In search of developing a plan to help my young 8yr-ish shep-x foster more adoptable. He was supposed to be a 13yr Shep with a simmple UTI, so I am a bit in over my head. Not that I cannot do this and am committed to his well being, but I am being a little resistant plus if he were mine I guess I wouldn't feel so pressured with time, etc.
He's been with me about 6wks, multi-dog house. The 1st 3wks he was in 'isolation' from the house dogs, then recovering from neutering (prostate abscesses). Since day one he has had bowel straining/frequency issues and anxious behaviors. Thought those issues were improving and I took him to an adoption event and that was a huge mistake. His gi issues worsened, it took me 4 days to get back to where he was the day he was pulled from shelter as well as he was barking and lunging at other dogs at the event.
I can throw his fav ball and things are fine, when I ask for a sit before the toss he will fast pace and then begins a 5 min straining with nothing process. When I leave the fence, stress. If I'm outside, go in house and attempt to leave him out, stress. On leash walks outside the fence zig, zag motions; looking, looking and I say anthing stress. His diet is restricted to low fat, no carbs. Food rewards is a bit complicated.
He has spent time with the elder female and walked with another female, passed by the male dogs without major issues. I can't say that there wasn't a few times when his body language looked tense and red flags didn't trigger but he was easily redirected by saying Rinni, No.
I'm not even sure where to even begin. Give him more time of just quiet ball toss and walks and every few days attempt sits again and just keep trying to build his security/confidence with OB and save any dog reactivity for last.
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Re: Training a foster with IBS s/s and anxiety
[Re: aimee pochron ]
#400922 - 05/20/2016 02:49 PM |
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Aimee, what a musical name.
I'm not sure I can offer much by way of insightful recommendations, mostly because I seem to be a contrarian when it comes to fosters and how to get them ready for adoption.
As soon as possible I integrate the foster with the dogs in my pack. My mutts have rituals that conform to my schedule, and I have found that fosters quickly adapt to the rituals, as if taught by the other dogs.
I only have a few food tactics. I usually add a spoonful of plain yogurt to the dogs' meal in the morning. No real reason other than the opinion it can't hurt, and might help their digestion of food. If the dog is having digestive issues I often boil up some chicken, cut it up and put it in with the dog's meal. And I have found boiled rice seems to be a cure all for digestive and stool issues, not requiring a vet's special attention and meds.
Then too, I feed the dogs on a schedule, twice a day, at 0630 and 1730 hours. Meals are followed by a trip outside for them to do their duty. Outside for play, training and needs a few times a day, and final outside for needs at about 2130 hours at night.
I have found that, for my needs, a reasonable, consistently followed schedule for the dogs forms the basis for solving most problems.
Some dogs, in my experience, have to feel integrated into the pack to begin to adapt to the rules and training that will ultimately result in their adopt ability. Dogs do learn from the behaviors of other dogs, in some measure. If a dog is more passive, it can gain some confidence through interaction with a balanced pack. A more dominant dog can learn it has to follow the rules and is never going to be the pack leader.
I have found that the more I might be overly solicitous of a dog's idiosyncrasies, the slower the dog is to get with the pack's program. For example, food is not left down for more than five minutes in my world. Out for a constitutional is not a thing I need to directly oversee, observing from a distance is sufficient, though I do try to figure out the dog's initial comfort cycles.
I don't know what food you feed the dog, or your dogs but I am too lazy to do much other than providing a dry dog food with the yogurt in the morning with two tabs of fish oil and a tab or two of glucosamine for older dogs, and just dry food in the evening. Veggies like carrots seem to be welcomed treats. All treats in moderation. And I closely watch the total calorie intake and weight of each dog.
In truth, I've found that a consistent schedule, consistent meal quantity, and access to outside activities goes a long way to having a dog that is healthy.
I've had dogs with special needs, requiring special meds, and they are harder to adopt because of the likely cost associated. Usually a special person steps up and takes on the challenge. But the dog still has to have some social skills and understand boundaries.
I did note that I didn't think I would add much by way of insight.
Mike A.
"I wouldn't touch that dog, son. He don't take to pettin." Hondo, played by John Wayne |
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Re: Training a foster with IBS s/s and anxiety
[Re: aimee pochron ]
#400923 - 05/20/2016 04:21 PM |
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If there's a lot of anxiety surrounding the sit in the way you're asking for it you risk "poisoning" the sit cue as that anxiety will become associated with the cue.
I would start by taking him through a groundwork/NILIF process like this: http://leerburg.com/groundwork.htm
I would insist on a proper heel and add a prong/Dominant Dog collar if needed. These types of dogs need YOU to make all the decisions and pull them out of the funk they are in. Just getting a proper walk makes a huge difference for a lot of dogs. I give the dog a short but still slack leash and then all you need is very small movements to show them where you want them. It sounds kind of backwards but it works well with the dogs who really need less obvious input from the handler. Speed up too. You want a marching right along pace. I do No Sniffing, No Peeing, No Pulling on walks.
I find leash pressure is a great way to teach some dogs a different way of dealing with pressure in it's various forms than what they're doing right now. You just have to be sure of what you're doing so if you haven't ever done leash pressure work I'd teach another dog before this one.
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Re: Training a foster with IBS s/s and anxiety
[Re: aimee pochron ]
#400925 - 05/20/2016 09:41 PM |
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Thank you both for your time, input and suggestions, very appreciative. Excellent link. Mike you are spot on; I haven't integrated him into the house and have been more focused on his anxiety display rather than moving forward. The examples shared will be very helpful. I'm not sure how you've mastered the reading between the lines so intuitively, but thank you. Cathy thank you for sharing and explaining a technique to make our walks successful. You all can hit me over the head now but I just need to clarify opinions: when his anxiety starts to build he starts looking all around, hearing shuts off and then he starts the BM position 5 min strain walking process. If I fail to successfully intervene at the beginning, wait it out and restart or stop and try a little later.
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Re: Training a foster with IBS s/s and anxiety
[Re: aimee pochron ]
#400927 - 05/21/2016 02:51 AM |
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when his anxiety starts to build he starts looking all around, hearing shuts off and then he starts the BM position 5 min strain walking process. If I fail to successfully intervene at the beginning, wait it out and restart or stop and try a little later.
You should be moving at a fast enough walk that looking around just really doesn't work because it pulls him out of heel position. With a short(not tight) leash you can catch the slightest bit of attention drifting. I interrupt it right then and there and they don't normally get a chance to escalate.
My Cattle Dog was a stress pooper when he was younger and once he was "empty" I just kept walking and let him figure it out when he tried to squat. Didn't look back or even slow down if I could help it. Zero acknowledgement of the issue unless something solid came out and I had to stop to pick up. Every dog is different but Maverick would also sit there and repeatedly try to move clearly empty bowels. With me continuing to move he would sort of do a waddling half squat for a few strides before getting up and walking a little more hunched up than normal for a few strides. After he sort of got himself sorted out he would return to a normal walk.
Also, I'm wondering about nerve issues from the prostate abscess. Has the vet had any medical input into the straining?
A lot of this stuff would really be best to have you shown in person but there's so few trainers out there that can do this kind of work correctly that I really don't want to tell you to look for a trainer. Most trainers are either overly permissive or overly punitive for a dog like this. Your boy needs firm handling that is still fair and doesn't overwhelm him.
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Re: Training a foster with IBS s/s and anxiety
[Re: aimee pochron ]
#400929 - 05/21/2016 06:52 AM |
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The 1st 3wks he was in 'isolation' from the house dogs, then recovering from neutering (prostate abscesses). Since day one he has had bowel straining/frequency issues and anxious behaviors. Thought those issues were improving and I took him to an adoption event and that was a huge mistake. His gi issues worsened, it took me 4 days to get back to where he was the day he was pulled from shelter ...... I can throw his fav ball and things are fine, when I ask for a sit before the toss he will fast pace and then begins a 5 min straining with nothing process. When I leave the fence, stress. If I'm outside, go in house and attempt to leave him out, stress. On leash walks outside the fence zig, zag motions; looking, looking and I say anthing stress. His diet is restricted to low fat, no carbs.
(Bold is mine.) I'm curious to know what he actually is eating if he can't have any carbs. (I know dogs don't actually have a dietary requirement for carbs, but of course most commercial dry kibble does contain a good percentage of carb.) Is he on a raw diet, veterinary prescription diet, or what? Any supplements? When he's not just straining and he actually produces a bowel movement, is it normal or not?
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Re: Training a foster with IBS s/s and anxiety
[Re: aimee pochron ]
#400930 - 05/21/2016 08:05 AM |
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Cheri his current diet is all home cooked; lean meats and dark greens with supplements of digestion blend, probiotics, B complex, calicum, saw palmetto, l-glutamine. Prior to I have tried kibble/can, kibble/can/cooked, can/cooked. On the kibble he experiences urgency and frequency, straining but fairly normal output. Was tolerating the can/cooked until Sunday of the adoption event. He does have two issues going on, the IBS and then there is his response to stress of straining. We've gotten the stool back to his norm; the straining is hard on his gi system and booty and assuming the poop position isn't pretty.
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Re: Training a foster with IBS s/s and anxiety
[Re: aimee pochron ]
#400931 - 05/21/2016 07:55 AM |
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Cathy, vet has been consulted and yes nerve damage is a possibility, the intestinal walls have thickening. He may never be perfect in the gi aspect but I do believe it can be controlled. I fully trust the opinions of most on this site, this is why I came here for advise. There is a trainer an hour away that I could use, but our schedules conflict and I'm thinking Rinni would be a mess by the time we even got there based on the adoption event fail. Thank you so much!!!! I really want Rinni to enjoy life and not strain it away
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Re: Training a foster with IBS s/s and anxiety
[Re: aimee pochron ]
#400940 - 05/22/2016 11:40 AM |
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After watching LB videos and sample walking my dogs, foster Rinni and I have had much improved leash walk-jogs. He had to hunch jog part of the way, but figured out how resume a regular stride. Some adjustments made toward integrating. I cannot thank you enough! We have a new beginning. Thank you....
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Re: Training a foster with IBS s/s and anxiety
[Re: aimee pochron ]
#400941 - 05/22/2016 07:55 PM |
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Cheri his current diet is all home cooked; lean meats and dark greens with supplements of digestion blend, probiotics, B complex, calicum, saw palmetto, l-glutamine. Prior to I have tried kibble/can, kibble/can/cooked, can/cooked. On the kibble he experiences urgency and frequency, straining but fairly normal output. Was tolerating the can/cooked until Sunday of the adoption event. He does have two issues going on, the IBS and then there is his response to stress of straining. We've gotten the stool back to his norm; the straining is hard on his gi system and booty and assuming the poop position isn't pretty.
I asked about his diet because, years ago, one of mine was having chronic digestive tract issues, and I thought I might be able to tell you what helped me back then, but from what you describe, you're doing almost exactly what I was doing. The l-glutamine, in particular, is something I was going to mention that I believe was helpful, and the digestive enzymes.
I was eventually able to transition that dog to kibble, but it has to be a limited-ingredient formula.
It sounds like you're on the right track, with some great advice from Mike and Cathy. Good luck!
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