Felix,
I am pleased to know that there is someone else out there that knows how great an APBT can be. I am new to the police force and I am looking forward to getting into the K-9 unit. We already have a German Shephard on the force. I have questioned my Sgt. about allowing me to train one of my APBT for chasing purposes. He was very leery about the subject because of all the myths that go along with the breed. I have been raising this breed for 10plus years now. Yes, we have encountered some overly aggressive dogs, but mainly because of the differences in temperment from the sires and dams. I am now working with a pup that is 12 wks old (KnuckleHead)AKA-"Knuckles". Right now he is a little hardheaded like most puppies are, but he is beginning to understand that I am BOSS not him. This type of breed in the police force would benefit the dept. #1) Intemidation- Most people already have their own negitive opinion about what Pitbulls stand for,B-I-T-I-N-G. Who is going to run from a PITBULL? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
#2) Speed- Most pitbulls are very athletic dogs. This is why most fighters have them. Their endurance is much greater that a human's, therefore the CHASE is ON. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
#3) Man's Best Friend- Over the years I have found that this breed is the most dedicated to it's owner. Right down to Protecting them from anyone who envades their MASTER's space. If I had to choose a human or a Pitbull as my partner, The pitbull I know would not turn from the fear of danger or as some might say Turning YELLOW! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

hell yes?

actually i was gonna say more but i was happy and wanted to put that up ther anyway i am extremely happy to hear that someone is finally tryin to get pits into police work. they will excell at it. keep up the good work.

OK, i know little about these dogs,but a buddy of mine work at a shop that had 2 very tough dogs, or at least they appeared to be.. one was a pitbull and the other was a rottweiler, my buddy threw a tire in the middle of them, they both would bite onto the tire and tug, very aggresivley, the pitbull would bailey put a dent in the tire while the rottweiler would crush it, and after about a minute or 2 the rotty would be the one with the tire, sadley to say it was police officer that had the rotty put down because it bit him, while he was tresspassing.. i dont want to stir up a lot of heat here, just telling you guys a true story, i just dont think a pittbull could ever take the place of a GS possible due to the lack of intelligence, again not trying to start heat but, i think there are more people that would agree to this as well

Pound for Pound they say the pit bull is the strongest dog in the world. I don't know how true this is but a 45lb -60lb pit bull is not gonna be stronger then a 90-120lb Rottiweiler. Now Pit Bull will have more stamina, even the 80-100 lbs PTBs.

But replacing the GSD it will never happen, though in a pinch a PBT may work as a patrol dog, it will take longer to bring it around. It takes more then bite work. Its possible but I don't think the public would agree with same animal seen in the news bitting kids, is the same one the cops work. Bad Publicity. I don't know about patrol animal, a Personal protection dog maybe, the bad Pubicity works for you here.

Even if it didn't have bad publicity, how many could jump a six foot wall on a consitent basis for it's entire career?

How many Rottweilers could jump 6' constitently for that length of time as well.

The GSD&Belgian isn't just used because the police feel it's the best. It's used because it fits all of their task easier in more situations.

Just my thought.

Law Enforcement to me is almost like any business they have to do things quickly and spend the least amount of money doing it. If they feel they can get 100 of each breed and the majority of them are one particular type to do the job then they're going to choose them.

Brad

The Rottie if he is too big may have some problem with agility, but the pit bull can climb trees a 6 foot wall he could climb with no problem.

My female Rottie/Pit may be more agile then the male GSD, she defintely takes more chances. But of course she has less things to go bump in the night. She is not as consitant, though.

I don't think agility is the problem, but as you mentioned, it takes more time to train them and overall temperment is the more issue. Pitt bulls though short they are very agile, the Rottie overheat and quits working I hear. Some even say are lazy??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm going to chime in and try to clear up this quagmire of ignorance and mis-information:

Mona: Speed is not the same as endurance and the two should not be used interchangeably.

King Dobie: Pits DO NOT lack the intelligence to perform police patrol or detection work. Obviously you know very little about the breed or about the work.

Don A.: Pound for Pound comparisons are just that, pound for pound. You cannot compare a 45# Pit to a 90# Rott and call that a # for # comparison. The average 70# Pit is probably stronger with greater endurance than the average 70# Rott, but it really depends on the individuals. Plus, these 'my breed is better than that breed' discussions are exceedingly weak and useless.

Brad: Any working/herding/bull breed hitting a 6' vertical wall daily is going to feel the effects of it. A mid sized Pit or Mal would probably hold up as well as any, if not a little better.

The biggest things that the APBT have against it concerning police work is the bad publicity and the tendency toward serious dog aggression, and you can probably find some lacking the dog aggression if you looked enough.

GSD's and Mal's have a historic foothold in LE work. The use of Bouvier, Giant Schnauzers, Rotts, Pits, Dobes etc.... will almost always be lesser for a multitude of reasons; most of which have little to do with the individual dog's ability to to the job. One good thing that was said was that the selection process often comes down to time and money, therefore people will stick with what they know, and that tends to be working quality GSDs and Mals.

John wrote: "The use of Bouvier, Giant Schnauzers, Rotts, Pits, Dobes etc.... will almost always be lesser for a multitude of reasons; most of which have little to do with the individual dog's ability to to the job."

Most of which have little to do with the individual dog's ability to do the job?

Thats a load of crap.

The chances of you finding quality Bouvier, Giant Schnauzers, Rotts, Pitts, Dobes, etc are dramatically smaller than your chances of finding a Malinois or German Shepherd capable of the work. There are just more quality shepherds out there because they are more popular, and they are way ahead of the power curve in selective breeding for the work.

There are other rare individuals of other breeds that can do the job well, but how large is the working population of those other breeds? What are your chances of fining one compared to the shepherd breeds?

John, when me and Rob talk about Shepherd breeds we're talking about the Malinois, GSD, or Dutch Shepherd.

If you took 100 GSDs, Mals, APBTs, you could find the same number able to perform tasks like jumping the 6'Wall?

I'm not saying they cannot do it, but not as many statistically. I have no problem with the APBT, I was very happy and surprised to see their success recently in PSA, French Ring events, etc.

BUT many feel the APBT is this super dog that can do anything anytime in any event in regards to protection and police work. While publicity would be the biggest reason to keep it out, sometimes I just think this breed has a lot of people that exaggerate it's ability. Not that it doesn't go on with other breeds, but I think it goes on a lot more with APBTs.

Maybe I'm wrong.