I have decided to train my 1 yr. old GSD in French Ring even though we plan to do Schutzhund as well.

She had a good foundation on the sleeve... has super grip. The idea was that if I waited too long... it may be extremely difficult to transfer her to legs / bitesuit later.

Anyone else done this? What concerns are there with regard to training for both sports?

I've seen several dogs with a Schutzhund foundation start french ring training. They always go for the sleeve which makes them very easy to esquive/escape from. It may be easier to get a Sch. dog to transfer to the biceps, forearms, back and upper body than legs.
French Ring is alot of fun. If I had a good dog I wouldn't try cross-training. I would probably wind up with a leg biting Schutzhund dog and a ring dog looking for a ladder to get over the eight foot wall. Just a few thoughts.

This dog is still VERY young and has only been on the sleeve for about 10 weeks so I'm not too worried about the dog always wanting to go to the upper body.

Also, I really don't care much about scoring... but you are right that it could cause a loss of points in the future.

Do Schutzhund people ever train on a bitesuit?

Sure do!! It's fun for the dog and you can make the training more realistic,less tedious and break out of trial procedure. Dogs can and do sour from the "same old-same old" stuff just like we do.

It's also good for dogs that tend to go "sleeve side" after the out or for hold and barks. The problem is that the dog either needs to know the out or the helper has to slip the whole jacket for the dog to carry..... my experience has been using it on dogs that already know the out or using it on the last bite the dog gets and the helper slips the jacket and dog carries it home.

Cindy, regarding bitesuit work and allowing the dog to win the jacket in Schutzhund... its funny you mention that because when I first watched the advanced Ring dogs on the suit... I asked "How does the dog win?" (they can't slip out of the full bitesuit).

They responded that the dog wins by "kicking the helpers ass."

...interesting difference in approach.

Hey Dave,

Bite suits are not "onesies" (those of you who have kids will understand this.}

I traveled around Europe to Ring trials, KNPV trials and clubs etc and all the bitesuits I saw had 2 pieces. Maybe there are some different kinds out there but every one I saw had jackets that the dog could theoretically carry away, if you so choose. :rolleyes:

This quote is from a recent article:

"We do not consider the winning of the rag, tube, sleeve or jambiere to be the victory, and we don't encourage a dog to carry it after the bite. (What big dogs we would need if they had to carry the suit, decoy and all!)

In Ring, the training decoy is akin to the dog's sparring partner."

Article: http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/LA/Redenbach%20.htm

Dave,

I think if you are looking to do both Ring and SchH (the topic of discussion) then the dog would be used to winning the sleeve, rag, tug etc... from doing SchH. I would think it would be a wise choice to let the dog carry the jacket off since it would be used to winning something. If my dog leaves the field without something in his mouth he finds something to reward himself and it's usually my arm LOL You don't need a big dog to carry the jacket though. I know Cindy's 65 lbs Doberman used to carry it off.

My SchH III male was put on the suit to add some spice to his training. He took the suit without hesitation. Now that is not to say he's Ring material but he had not problems biting the leg or lower body. Trainer stuck it out and he bit it, no problems. We did let my dog carry the jacket off as his reward. But that is the difference I guess between Ring trainers and SchH trainers. If you decide to do both then you'll have to make that choice and what is best for your dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Dave,

What we do with the PPD/NAPD dogs is that when they are first converted to the suit it is done with the jacket only and that is left undone. The dog will "win" the jacket a few times until it has been taught to out on a bite, after that it is just outed instead of winning the jacket. Once that is solid the leg bites are taught.