I've been lurking for weeks and would like to start out by thanking everyone. The information on this board has been extremely helpful to me.

About eight weeks ago, I acquired two dogs, an 18-month-old Boerboel bitch (spayed) and a three-year-old GSD (whole). Both were well-socialized before I received them and both had some limited obedience training. Most importantly, both so far seem to have very good temperaments. They are primarily pets, but where I live, it is a good idea to have dogs as a deterrent to criminals. I've been focusing on firming up their training, particularly in the face of distractions. Things are going well, and I'm looking forward to receiving the prong collars and basic obedience DVD I ordered from Leerburg.

I have just run into a minor barking problem: Starting four days ago, the Boerboel has decided to give me a "wake up call" at about sunrise each morning <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. this usually consists of just a few fairly low-level barks with a bit of time between each. She may finish up with one or two more more solid barks. These are definitely not her prey or warning barks (which might crack the house foundation), more an "I'm alive!" or "come out and play!" bark. She is not an excessive barker otherwise. Fortunately, the GSD has not yet seen fit to join in .

I am at a loss as to how to deal with this. I'm pretty sure the barks have too much time between them for a bark collar to be effective. And I don't see how I can correct her. By the time I turn off the alarm, unlock my bedroom door and go to the dogs' room, the barking will be over. Also, I suspect that any kind of response will simply reinforce her perception that barking is a good way to get me to wake up and pay attention to her. So far, I've been trying to ignore her and making it a point to not get up for at least 30 minutes so she doesn't associate her barking with my response. Given that this was the fourth time, my efforts don't seem to be working. Any thoughts?

In this case I'd say the best solution is to completely ignore her. Going to her, even with the idea of correcting her, is rewarding the barking. If you've been doing this, expect the barking to get worse before it gets better. Dogs do what works and, again assuming you have done this, barking has worked for her.

Is there any reason that the dogs couldn't sleep in their crates on on their beds in your room? If they were in the wild they'd sleep with their pack.

I agree - I used to jump outta bed and take my boy out to potty when he was a pup and barked at me, so it continued... now he's older so I know he can hold it, so I just ignore him n he goes back to sleep n lets me sleep longer in the mornings. The only time I know he is serious about having to go out is when he is persistent in walking around my bed making loud "I really REALLY needa go poop" whining sounds.

Elaine and Mike,
Thanks for the input. Your points are logical, but I really have ignored the barking so far. If I'm reenforcing their behavior, it is inadverdent, and I've tried hard to think about what I might be doing that sends the wrong message. (Admittedly, my thinking is a bit fuzzy before 6 a.m.) As I said, I make it a point not to even open my door for 30 minutes or so after the barking. I also don't turn off the alarm (they'd hear me moving around and using the keyboard). I've been trying to figure out what started it four days ago, but I'm stumped.

I'm not inclined to crate the dogs in my bedroom for several reasons. First, as much as I love my dogs, things happen in my bedroom that I'd prefer not to share with them. Second, rather than crate train them to actual crates, I've trained them to a 6' x 12' dressing room almost next to our bedroom. It is "their" place just as crates would be. They willingly go there when told and sleep there at night even with the door open. Third, even in my bedroom, I'd be concerned that the Boerboel would bark for the same reason if in a crate, or wake me with a cold nose without the crate.

So far, the Boerboel is a great dog otherwise, and I will feel incredibly lucky if my problems don't come bigger than this. The GSD has adapted to his new home even more smoothly.

How old is the problem dog? Some behaviors take more than 4 days to get rid of - dogs take 30 repetitions to learn a new word and don't take hints very well either. My dog used to squeek a toy or bark at me every morning for the first 3 or 4 months I owned him, when I started letting him out of the crate at night he'd wake me up with a cold nose in the morning, which I don't really mind, now he's gotten used to the fact that I'll get to him when I get to him, so he just sleeps in till either he really has to go badly (which unfortunately is sometimes at 5am if his previous days schedule was a lil skewed) or till I get up.

She's 18 months, still an adolescent. People here tell me Boerboels are relatively slow to mature. I agree with your point that four days isn't much time to change behavior, but I'm most concerned that this is a new habit and that the longer it goes on, the longer and harder it will be to change. For the time being, I'll keep ignoring it, if only because I can't think of a response that won't reenforce the behavior. She's a smart dog, and I assume she thinks the barking is productive. Maybe she hears me rolling over and mumbling (generally words that can't be printed on a family-oriented web board) and she realizes she's woken me up. But she doesn't keep barking. It is really half a dozen grumbles/barks, with just one or two good ones, then she stops until I do come. They never even leave their room. Frankly, if she'd let me sleep another 45 minutes or so, this wouldn't be a major problem. She'd be a good alarm clock.

She may be testing to see if you really, really won't get up when she chooses. Just keep ignoring her and she'll eventually give up on this issue and start testing you on another one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'm curious about how the Boerboel compares to the Bullmastiff, especially temperament-wise.

Ignoring her may be paying off. Today, she did not bark at all before I let her out at about 7 am (a bit past the normal time).

On comparisons with the Bullmastiff, I wouldn't presume to compare since I haven't owned a Bullmastiff or otherwise had extensive experience with them. Since I'm relatively new to Boerboel ownership, I don't think I can even speak for the breed (although presumably that will change with time). I do, of course, feel reasonably qualified to talk about my own dog.

Mine (female, about 25" at the shoulders, I'm guessing about 110 lbs) certainly compares very closely to a Bullmastiff in size. She doesn't compare in color. She's piebald, white with brown and black patches. OK, that's about as far as I feel qualified to "compare" to a Bullmastiff.

Temperament so far seems to be good. She bonded very quickly with me and my wife. There's some pretty farfetched stories out there about boerboels and other dogs "knowing" who is a threat. I don't believe that stuff, but I've been very pleased with my dog's judgments so far. She barks at people passing by the gate and follows their progress from inside our fence (her bark is more of a warning bark, not one with "intent"). She is fine with our household staff (I have had them help feed her from almost day one). She is also good about allowing our guards to enter the property and has no problem with visitors as long as family, staff, or guards allow them in. She is more suspicious of strangers allowed into the house, and tends to keep a close eye on them until she feels comfortable with them. She is aloof with new people, although she warms up pretty quickly if they make an effort. Otherwise she's happy to lie down 10-15 feet away and just watch. I have only had small children over twice, and kept her under very close observation (for obvious reasons). Frankly, it is clear that she doesn't love small children, but her reactions were always appropriate. When one toddler walked up to her to pet her face (with fairly jerky movements), she leaned her head back, but continued to lie there to let him touch her neck and shoulders. After 5-10 minutes, when she had had enough, she got up and walked away. (Quite unlike our GSD who made it clear he loves kids and their attention.)

She has quite a strong prey drive (one reason I wanted to be very careful in exposing her to small children). Ibises (locally called "Hadeedahs" and about the size of a duck) land in my yard frequently, and she loves to chase them. At this point, I only have to say the word "Hadeedah!" and she goes into full alert, scanning for birds. If I point and say "go get it!" she launches at top speed in the direction I point whether or not she sees the bird. She's so motivated for the birds that she's also quickly learning to follow my pointing arm for further directions from a distance. Interestingly, she has no interest in toys.

She was very dominant with my unfixed male GSD, and they had several run ins before she was able to assert herself. She's generally self-assured around other dogs and ignores them, but she's shown dog aggression in some cases. I don't know what sparks it, but I'm trying to figure it out.

She is clearly smart and wants to please. She picked up on the "dog free zones" of my house (master bedroom, dining room, kitchen) in just a few days and is doing pretty well in basic obedience so far. I have no interest in competition, but I absolutely believe that large dogs must be scrupulously well-behaved. One thing I would note is that she is excited about our training sessions, but loses interest rapidly in repeating the same exercises. In this, she is quite unlike our GSD who looks on training as a great game and is happy to do any training for a much longer period. I would describe her as a fairly "soft" dog. A raised voice or a shake of her collar or scruff and she submits. (BTW, this is from me or my wife. I would not expect similar submission to anybody outside of the pack). She does not seem to hold a grudge, and a word of praise with a pat lets us get on with our work.

She's pretty athletic. Not nearly as agile as our GSD, but when they're playing, she can run about as fast as he can. He does have more stamina, but she has more power. No food aggression. I can take back her raw meat with just a gentle tug to let her know that I want it. (I don't do this often, but I have checked to see how she'd respond.)

I'm always skeptical of people who sing the praises of a breed based solely on their own pets. After all, we all love our dogs and tend not to see their bad sides. But that said, I'm honestly pleased with this particular dog so far. As I said before, if the problems don't come any bigger than early a.m. barking, I'll feel incredibly lucky.

I'd be very curious to know how the above compares with your experiences with Bullmastiffs or other mastiff breeds. My understanding is that BBs and BMs are very closely related. It is generally accepted that there's a lot of mastiff in Boerboels. The real difference is that the Boerboel also has a good dose of African Dog. This doesn't show up much in appearance, but I do think it makes a difference in health and psychological make up.

Cheers!
Don

Actually one reason I asked was that my partner and myself Are looking to purchase a hotel or similar business in the hopefully near future and we are considering using a dog to act as security and especially as a deterent against potential problems. The Bullmastiff, assuming we could find a decent one or Boerboel would seem to fit the bill for our needs. From what I've been able to learn, I would lean towards the Boerboel. There's a breeder in Arizona.

Thank you for the information you were able to give. It fits with what I've been able to learn about the breed. It is amazing the way dogs often seem to just "know" who could be a threat. One of my collies (now deceased) "helped" me manage a hotel. Most of the time he would ignore the people who came in but occasionally he wouldn't stop barking and growling at someone. When he did that, we'd quote a rate high enough that the person wouldn't stay. Now children, he loved and had to personally greet each one. They all called him Lassie (very understandable since he was a rough, sable collie).

A Boerboel would certainly rate high on the deterrent scale. If you're thinking about doing formal PPD training, however, I gather there are some disadvantages. The biggest is that they're said to be late maturing.

Also, I was told something by another BB owner (here in South Africa) the other day. I believe this story, because I heard it first from the guy's young daughter, who looked very embarrassed when she told me "Our Boerboel was thrown out of dog school." The father later clarified to me that he was refunded his money and asked to leave the ppd school because his dog consistently refused to go for the bite sleeve. Instead, it launched itself into the air, put its shoulder into the guy to knock him down, and went for his throat. Apparently, this only had to happen a couple of times before the school asked him to leave. The guy did not seem disappointed with his dog, however.

Only one other thought: Given the litigious nature of America (I am an American, by the way), does having a rare breed bring you any possible legal liabilities as a business owner? I am not, repeat, not a lawyer, but you might want to ask one about this. If your dog ever bit anybody, no matter how justified, I wonder if he couldn't get a lawyer to portray your dog as some sort of vicious South African land shark. I think you'd have the same problem with a Pit Bull, for example, no matter how well trained it was or how justifiable the bite. From the other direction, a dog like a rough collie might bring you an advantage. I think a criminal would probably be intimidated enough by a collie baring his teeth, but a jury is highly unlikely to think of "Lassie" as vicious and perhaps likely to assume that if "Lassie" bit somebody, it must have been provoked. I'd think a GSD would be somewhere inbetween the BB and the Collie. I also mention this because I think there might well be a difference for you keeping a dog in your house and one that's associated with a business. Just an opinion. I'm curious, though, and might post a question about that on the board.

Cheers!
Don