I thought about posing my questions in the "Tracking" section, but since the raw food component is important to the question, I think I might get more feedback here. Moderators, please feel free to move if this isn't the appropriate place.

We are training tracking for SchH sport work. We are working with a trainer whose methods closely follow the info in this link http://www.schutzhundvillage.com/nose1.html (thank you Doug Wendling for providing this in the tracking section back in April).

We did the large scent pad work, and some short track work last fall, and (yes, we're late) are starting back up again. We switched to raw feeding over the winter. Our trainer is a believer that if we are serious about tracking training, then for now, all of the meals should "come from the track." That makes intuitive sense to me, and we are taking that path.

Of course doing this with raw meals is a little different for us than last fall when we did this with kibble.

We have some ideas, but I would love other ideas from people who feed on the track, and also feed raw. For today, we are using liver pieces, gizzard pieces, and cutting the RMB up into smaller pieces (this is work!) for the track. We will save back some larger pieces for the "reward" at the end of each of 3 short tracks. (he did fine on the large scent pad yesterday - so 3 short tracks is the trainers recommendation for the week. of course if that doesn't go well, we'll drop back to the large scent pad.)

We're not afraid of the time involved to prepare his "meals" as described above. However, I suspect someone may have come up with something that might work better.

I'm hoping the old adage still stands that "the only stupid question is the one never asked!!"

Thanks,
Beth

I feed raw, but not on the track, because it would be too darn much work to perpare at dawn! I use hot dogs or something like rollover. I prefer to use these things for tracking rather than kibble because the dog can just sort of snuffle them up as he goes rather than having to crunch up kibble. The other advantage is I make my pieces much smaller than even little kibbles. I also track in the morning & just don't feed before we go out! When we get home I give him a chicken neck or a wing to tide him over until lunch.

Susan, thanks for your feedback. Our challenge is that our trainer recommends that optimally, he gets ALL of his food from the track. (no meals in bowls)

While this requires quite a bit of extra work, we think it's worth it, and absent better suggestions here's what we did yesterday and today, and will continue to do.

I took kitchen shears and my "meaty parts" and cut them up into small pieces. The "reward" at the end of the first track was the bony part. The "reward" at the end of the second track was that bony part, along with his supplements and veggie mush. We're currently on short tracks with one piece of food in each step. This morning, he only missed one piece of food between the two tracks, and his head was bobbing in a rythem from footstep to footstep. So hopefully he's getting a good start.

Interesting side note. We were on the road last weekend, and had occassion to do a bit of training with him for "food reward" with another trainer we work with. Before we fed raw, this dog was like Mikey in the old "Life Cereal" commercials - he would eat anything. He wasn't enthusiastic at all about hot dogs or even some packaged liver flavored treats. But he works enthusiastically for his real, raw food.

I never thought I'd see THAT day. Anyone else notice that sort of thing after starting to feed raw?

Many thanks,
Beth

it is possible to keep a fairly balanced diet when the only place they eat is on the track.

i use bil-jac or hot dogs on the track, then feed chicken necks, sardines, etc. at the articles for reward.

also - remember that it's not what they eat every day, it's about balancing over time. track every day for a week feeding him the minumum variety, then take a couple days off and load him up on all the supplements and other stuff you'd rather not carry in your pockets. skip a meal or two and go back to tracking the next day. rinse, repeat.

works for me.

I will weigh in my two scents on tracking. I will tell my method that has worked very well and continues to work.

first of all if the dog has the correct drive that is needed and the correct amount then I start with a scent pad of about 3 foot by 3 foot. I take a sock with some real good smelly food inside. I dab the sock around the scent pad where i have stomped. i then walk a staright line where i dab the sock on the ground once about every 4-8 foot. i walk about 35 yards and make a slight turn. At the turn i dab the sock a couple of times in my track. i then make the turn and walk another 30-40 yards dabbing the sock about every 4-8 foot. I then hide a toy (kong, ball) at the end for him to find. The toy is somewhat hidden so he does not see it.

I then walk him to the scent pad and point to the ground and give the tracking command. Some dogs dont need much encouragement when they smell the food. I then let the dog follow the track. I do not let him get off the track, I let him track in the footsteps. at the turn i take it easy and let him work it out. At the end of the track he gets his toy with alot of praise and maybe fetch. I do this about 2-3 times a day. You want to make the food drops farther apart as soon as you can. If you dont then the dog will be tracking the food and not the human scent. All the food does is get his nose down to the ground and started. In between the food drops he is smelling human scent. After a bit the dog is only following human scent to the reward.

Once the dog is comfortable in that distance I make it longer, then add a turn or two, then change terrain. Slightly moist grass is the best for beginning. the grass will hold the scent longer than others. I also change up the reward at the end of the track. He may get a kong,ball or he may get a bite, or he may get civil agitation. this way he does not get laxed while tracking. I do this for the main reason of what I do for a living.

As far as food and eating on the track. No. when I start training a new dog to track he may get half rations the day before i start the track. He is hungry enough to locate the smell of the food on the scent pad with ease.


Just my method.

vonhunterkennels.com

 Quote:

I will weigh in my two scents on tracking. I will tell my method that has worked very well and continues to work.

first of all if the dog has the correct drive that is needed and the correct amount then I start with a scent pad of about 3 foot by 3 foot. I take a sock with some real good smelly food inside. I dab the sock around the scent pad where i have stomped. i then walk a staright line where i dab the sock on the ground once about every 4-8 foot. i walk about 35 yards and make a slight turn. At the turn i dab the sock a couple of times in my track. i then make the turn and walk another 30-40 yards dabbing the sock about every 4-8 foot. I then hide a toy (kong, ball) at the end for him to find. The toy is somewhat hidden so he does not see it.

I then walk him to the scent pad and point to the ground and give the tracking command. Some dogs dont need much encouragement when they smell the food. I then let the dog follow the track. I do not let him get off the track, I let him track in the footsteps. at the turn i take it easy and let him work it out. At the end of the track he gets his toy with alot of praise and maybe fetch. I do this about 2-3 times a day. You want to make the food drops farther apart as soon as you can. If you dont then the dog will be tracking the food and not the human scent. All the food does is get his nose down to the ground and started. In between the food drops he is smelling human scent. After a bit the dog is only following human scent to the reward.

Once the dog is comfortable in that distance I make it longer, then add a turn or two, then change terrain. Slightly moist grass is the best for beginning. the grass will hold the scent longer than others. I also change up the reward at the end of the track. He may get a kong,ball or he may get a bite, or he may get civil agitation. this way he does not get laxed while tracking. I do this for the main reason of what I do for a living.

As far as food and eating on the track. No. when I start training a new dog to track he may get half rations the day before i start the track. He is hungry enough to locate the smell of the food on the scent pad with ease.


Just my method.

vonhunterkennels.com

OK......I had to say that the "my two scents" got a laugh over here!

Ditto the laugh over "two scents!!" Thanks for the continued feedback. Bottom line is it's more work to prepare raw meals for the track than to prepare raw meals for the bowl, but it seems well worth it so far. He seems quite willing to work for his food - especially since that's the only way to get a meal. So far so good.

Thanks,
Beth

Well, the food prep time it getting to us, but we are committed to 1) raw feeding and 2) following trainer instructions which for now means all food comes from the track.

Connie and others mentioned grinding the food (meat and bones + other) in a different thread. I called about 10 different local butchers and also meat lockers in our area yesterday, and nobody will agree to grind the meat + bones and I got the impression that has to do with FDA concerns of some sort. (maybe the possibility of a bone ending up in someone else's ground turkey??)

At any rate, I found this meat grinder recommendation at a raw feeding web site for home use.

http://www.pierceequipment.com/Merchant2...Code=neGrinders

The customer service rep I spoke with was familiar with it's use by people who feed raw to pets. I went ahead and ordered one.

Anyone have one of these? Any tips from your experience about the limits of what it can handle bone wise? (the seller says it works great for chicken backs and necks, and turkey necks - was less willing to recommend it for heavier type bones such as legs/thighs..)

None of our dogs have had any issues crunching and digesting chicken or turkey bones after the first couple weeks on raw. But we think grinding will make it easier to pinch off a "clump" for track footsteps rather than cutting every meal up by hand into itsy bitsy pieces.

Thanks,
Beth

 Quote:

......others mentioned grinding the food (meat and bones + other) in a different thread. I called about 10 different local butchers and also meat lockers in our area yesterday, and nobody will agree to grind the meat + bones and I got the impression that has to do with FDA concerns of some sort. (maybe the possibility of a bone ending up in someone else's ground turkey??).....
At any rate, I found this meat grinder recommendation at a raw feeding web site for home use. .....http://www.pierceequipment.com/Merchant2...Code=neGrinders....
..... I went ahead and ordered one. ....Anyone have one of these? Any tips from your experience about the limits of what it can handle bone wise? (the seller says it works great for chicken backs and necks, and turkey necks - was less willing to recommend it for heavier type bones such as legs/thighs..).....

Well, since the heavy weight-bearing bones (not back and necks) are the only ones I grind, I wanted it to handle them OK. Anyway, after looking at reviews online, I passed up the Maverick and got a Northern Tools grinder # 168620. I had been wanting a Maverick, and I was happy that I finally found a couple of reviews that changed my mind.
http://www.preciouspets.org/a/grinders.html

I think the price was the same.

But now I almost never use it because the natural foods store near me is happy to grind anything. They explained that they must clean the grinder after grinding the chickens (and I am not clear as to whether this is because it's poultry or because it's bones....sorry), but they do it. In fact, they hack a chicken in half for me (the short way) and grind the back half (the legs, thighs), leaving the rest the way it is because I want that. (I have occasionally had them throw the whole bird in when I was starting a "gulper" on raw and was a little worried; turned out I need not have been.) Then they wrap the whole thing up and charge me exactly what the chicken was marked before that extra labor.

What I'm saying is: Cultivating a relationship with the butcher at a small store was well worth my time and energy. BTW, he does this for others, too. And another small market in town does, too, I know from my training club.

I stop by the meat counter immediately and ask for this so they have plenty of time while I do the rest of the shopping.

When my store has backs on sale, I grab a lot of those for the freezer.

P.S. I salute your commitment! Oh, and as to a comment on your earlier post: I absolutely see more enthusiasm for fresh food in my dogs.

Hey Connie! I applaud you and envy you for the relationships you have been able to cultivate with your local butcher!! LOL, of the 10 or so folks I talked to yesterday about grinding, at least 4 of them are butchers I have known personally (first name basis, and recently I'm the "Chicken Lady"). Drats!!

Thanks for the info on the grinder you bought. If mine doesn't work out, then I will try the one you suggested - "with comments!"

I was initially quite concerned about the various dogs' abilities to process these bones natuarally. We had a couple of random pukes in the first couple of weeks, which included small bony parts. I got the advice to add a "good dollop" of unflavored, live culture yogurt in the short term. We have never looked back.

And as a side note, I'm THRILLED that I don't have to clean those nasty kibble (dye) induced puke stains out of my carpet anymore. That is just a bonus to the DOGS doing so well on raw regardless of my personal pet peeves!!

Here's to finding a way to survive beginner tracking RAW!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Beth