To make a very long story short, I have a male GSD that is about 28 months old. He was originally supposed to be my first sport dog, but after several months of trying to make it work, I had to admit that I just don't have the time or money to do it at this time in my life. After trying to find another home where someone would work him, I have decided he's going to be an in home pet with me, my wife and our 2 young boys.

The dog sits well, downs well, heels o.k. for the short time I've been working on it, and stays pretty well. I am having trouble with getting him to come. Particularly if he has his favorite kong that he loves to chase. I'm having to leave a leash on him so that I can step on it to stop him. What is the best way to train this. Also would like to teach him to down from a distance in case of an emergency type situation.

Thanks,
Kory

This is going to be a pretty generic answer. However, you should first get the Leerburg Obedience DVD if you don't have it. Then after working using the methods that he describes I would consider an eCollar (if you do go that route, get the eCollar video, it's worth it).

You have to teach the dog that coming to you isn't HIS choice. You have to control every aspect of his life, including when he plays, eats, gets exercise, etc. When you control every aspect of his life he doesn't have a choice but to obey. Once he understands this, then you can add things like distraction, distance, and lack of leash/control to the training.

24 months of age
Not to be rude but my standard reply to you would be
"You must have been working with the wrong trainers or
Arguing with the right ones!"
I leave that for you to decide
Let's see he won't come, he won't retreive.
Its the same thing really, ones just more advanced than the other
My experience has shown me that for pet owners to be happy with a Shepherd as a companion animal, the dog must learn to Stay for much longer than any other breed I've every worked with.
For example could he: wait at a location for three hours; down and stay, while another dog jumped him
My guess is "no"
Sounds to me if you resort to electrics you may ruin what little of a retreive you have developed
Why are you throwing the object so far?
Why aren't you working on a long line?
My advice if you do resort to using electrics is that pay some one to help you
Hire them first, purchase the collar they reccommend
Follow their instructions to the letter
Commit to what you want in writting, they commit to deliver
It's called a contract
Good trainers will be invested in your success
I'm embarrassed if it has been the trainers that have failed you and your dog, to date
It should only take a couple of privates and 3 months of consistancy on your part
good luck

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.......You have to teach the dog that coming to you isn't HIS choice. You have to control every aspect of his life, including when he plays, eats, gets exercise, etc. When you control every aspect of his life he doesn't have a choice but to obey. Once he understands this, then you can add things like distraction, distance, and lack of leash/control to the training.

I sure do agree that you want Video #302 (Basic Ob). Also, here's a recent thread all about the recall....... saves re-typing! This applies to a dog of your dog's age.

http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/showf...rue#Post4179368

If the recall is trained right, there is no hesitation at all. If there is, then the dog has (maybe?) been called to be corrected. In that case, I'd consider a new word (hier, here, something other than the word that called the pup to a correction). JMO.

Pre-Step -1: I don't call the dog for any discipline or anything bad, like medicine.

I do call the dog when anything good is going to happen (walk, car, play, food). "Come" means good stuff. It doesn't mean the end of play.

Step 1: I start with the dog very close and no distractions except for me, the treat-praise machine. He is on a long line. The treat-praise machine makes coming very attractive. I don't correct for hesitation (because I don't want coming to me to be associated with a bad thing). If he doesn't come, I reel him in. No praise and no correction. If I have to go get him (he just looks at me, say), again no praise or correction.

Step 2: I don't repeat the command. If the dog doesn't come on first command, he's reeled in. If by chance he can't be reeled in (not a good situation until recall is perfect) and doesn't come, I go get him immediately. No correction and no reward.

Then distractions start, very low level.

"Come" has to be something the dog never disobeys, because once he does, he is reinforced in seeing it as an "if I feel like it" command. So we set the dog up to want to come, and have a long line for just in case.
All JMO.

Thanks for the replies. The situation is certainly not the trainers fault. As I said it is a very long story, but I guess maybe I will have to try to tell it as short as I can. I got the puppy after having someone very experienced in schutzhund test the litter for the best puppy. He picked the puppy for me. As I said, I tried for several months (maybe 4-6) and I just couldn't make the time and the money, although a smaller problem, was tight too. I all ready had two dogs that were pets and got Kaiser to accomplish something. When that didn't work out, I decided it was best to find him a new home. I couldn't find a good working home for him, so he went to a long time friend that had recently lost one of his two female gsd's to cancer. About a month ago, I got a call that Kaiser had to go because he had "attacked" two neighbors dogs. These dogs had come into his territory, agitated him and Kaiser broke through the garage door to defend his territory. They, nor their neighbors, see it that way, but that's another story. If I didn't take him back, he was going to the SPCA. My son knew that probably meant he'd be put down and we didn't want that either, so we decided we'd have a 3rd pet. So, his obedience has not been taught by me. All they taught him was sit, down and he didn't stay very well. Neither of them could even get a toy out of his mouth until he decided it was time. They were stunned when I walked right up and took a ball from him. I don't let him run the show they way they did, however, I have no where near the experience most of you obviously do, with advanced training in dogs. He has picked up the stay and heel pretty well so far, for the short time I've had him back. I just wasn't sure of how exactly to get him to come to me without playing these keep away games. Like I said, it's much worse when he has a toy, but he doesn't come real well regardless. If I'm not asking him to come, he follows me everywhere. By the way, since I've had him back, and before I let him go, he's never shown aggression towards anyone, either of my other two dogs or any dogs or other animals when out in public.

Thanks,
Kory

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.....I have no where near the experience most of you obviously do, with advanced training in dogs. He has picked up the stay and heel pretty well so far, for the short time I've had him back. I just wasn't sure of how exactly to get him to come to me without playing these keep away games. Like I said, it's much worse when he has a toy, ......

I just want to assure you that training a perfect recall requires patience, but not vast experience or expertise.

If he already associates the word you use with NOT coming, then choose a new (permanent) word, get a long line, and start short upbeat training sessions.

When you start, YOU have the toys and treats and fun. Be the best game in town so he has no desire to avoid coming to you. Never allow him not to come (as outlined in the instructions).

I would strongly recommend that you order http://www.leerburg.com/302.htm

You can do this. Set him up to succeed, keep the sessions short and upbeat, and never allow him NOT to comply.

You'll see! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Make sure he's 100% on the recall alone before you move onto distractions (like his Kong), try to not set him up to fail. I am just starting with distractions with my dog now because I feel he is ready for it. But unless your guy has his "come" down pat without distractions I wouldn't bother to even start with trying to get him to come to you if he has his Kong. Especially since you know from past experiences with him that he more than likely won't listen. When he gets to the point where he comes when called each and every time, then move onto distractions. You may have skipped forward a bit too fast to try the recall with distractions.
To me the recall is the most important command to teach, and to teach properly and fully. It can save your dogs life.
When training Tucker the come command I praised generously when he got to me, that way he knew to associate that command with good times and fun. Does your dog go nuts for a particular food or toy??? Use those to your advantage. Only use that treat for the recall training or that toy and he'll learn that coming when called always ends well.
And keep him on a line at all times....even in the backyard if needed. That way you control the situation and can correct him if you need to.

Connie's method is good, but here's the way Ed's video teaches:

1. Put the dog on a leash, (if he's big with a prong collar, unless he responds to a flat collar).

2. Say your "come" command. If he doesn't come, lightly pop the leash and keep popping it *until he turns to come*. As soon as he turns to come praise like he's jesus returning again all the way to you and stop popping the leash. *You don't want to jerk the dog, as that takes drive out and will cause him to hate coming to you. Light pops put drive into the dog, and get him "hyped" up. So don't worry about seeming like you're "correcting" him. You're not, just make sure they're light pops.

3. Follow that up with a treat when he gets to you and of course more praise.

That's basically it. Eventually work on a long line, and under distraction. Then later on down the line to corrections for not coming, but you really should get Ed's obediance video to better understand that whole process. I think Susan Barwig said it best in her book "Schutzhund", in the dogs eyes, the come is not "I have to come to you now" it's a "I GET to come to you now." She was talking about the come in Schutzhund, but I think it illustrates well how the dog should WANT to come to you (in most cases, maybe not under intense distraction at first), so make it fun when he gets it right.

Lastly, when he's got his kong he's most likely not coming (in my experiance) because he doesn't know how to come to you OR cause he's excited and doesn't trust you with his toy. Which you really should get Bernard Flinks' tape (that Ed made of course) called Building Drive and Focus. It teaches all about how to bring the dog into your arms and make near you a calm place to be. And builds emmense trust between dog and handler.

Ok I have rambled on far too long, and their is TONS more on those two topics for you to know. I merely scratched the surface. But I think those two things might get you pointed in the right direction.

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Make sure he's 100% on the recall alone before you move onto distractions (like his Kong), try to not set him up to fail. I am just starting with distractions with my dog now because I feel he is ready for it. But unless your guy has his "come" down pat without distractions I wouldn't bother to even start with trying to get him to come to you if he has his Kong. ......

Great points! Set him up to succeed and never to refuse you. If you have doubt and can't reel him in, don't call him.

Great posts here! My recall command will improve from reading this thread. Jeff's thing about "I GET to come to you now" really says it all. The recall is what the dog wants to do..... it means fun and praise and not an end to playing. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

I think Susan Barwig said it best in her book "Schutzhund", in the dogs eyes, the come is not "I have to come to you now" it's a "I GET to come to you now."

That is a great way to look at it!

And Connie brought up a good point to never call the dog to you for something he doesn't like. Tucker HATES having his ears cleaned so whenever its time to do it...i never call him to me, but go to him. But for anything fun, i always use the come command...time for dinner, call him, time to go outside for fun...call him...time for a belly rub...call him. Make him associate that word and the action of responding immediately to it the most fun thing for him to do...even more fun than the Kong!
Just make sure that you can follow through with a correction...if he's 20 feet away and with no line on him, don't use the command until you are close enough to him to make sure he responds immediately. And fuss over him like crazy when he does it....whatever will make him think that that command is the best thing ever!
He'll catch on quicker than you think <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I actually have 3 commands that I use to get Tucker back to me.
Come...come to me and sit in front.
Here...come by me, meaning come closer to me
Lets go...when we're in the park and I am changing direction and want him to come back the other way.
once your guy has it down pat....there's a few variations you can use for different situations