My mother has a huge, huge breed bias against these dogs based solely on the fact that there have been two publicized cases of them attacking/killing humans. I'm having trouble finding good information on them beyond these two news stories.

I think they are amazing dogs and I would consider getting one later on in life, once I move out and have the room and such. Does anyone have links to good breeders (as in, breeders who aren't obsessed with boasting how much their dogs weigh or how 'tough' or 'alpha' they are) and perhaps statistics on how many are in the USA? The AKC has them in their Foundation Stock Service program, but the breed club has no website that I could find.

Have any of you met them/seen them work in sport, and were you impressed?

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My mother has a huge, huge breed bias against these dogs based solely on the fact that there have been two publicized cases of them attacking/killing humans. I'm having trouble finding good information on them beyond these two news stories......

I typed in the name at Google and got hundreds of returns. Here's one:
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/canarydog.htm

And here's another:
http://www.presa-canario-canary-dogs.com/presa-canario-canary-dogs-breeders.htm

Be careful about what you wish for.

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I'm having trouble finding good information on them beyond these two news stories.

I think they are amazing dogs and I would consider getting one later on in life, once I move out and have the room and such. Does anyone have links to good breeders (as in, breeders who aren't obsessed with boasting how much their dogs weigh or how 'tough' or 'alpha' they are) and perhaps statistics on how many are in the USA? The AKC has them in their Foundation Stock Service program, but the breed club has no website that I could find.

Have any of you met them/seen them work in sport, and were you impressed?

Per Connie's post, there is a bunch of info out there (also stuff here in the archives, search around). Bob Scott and others can correct me, but "sport" for a Presa will be a different notion, and with different expectations, than what you see here.

Red Star Kennels in Hudson, WI breeds "working Presas" and seems to be legit. I have not visited yet. Bob Scott (I thought) had a pup from their lines for a few weeks and they provided studs for a woman in Bob's club.

Why a Presa?

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Be careful about what you wish for.

Heh.

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Be careful about what you wish for.

Good point! I read some of the authoritative (non-sensational) sites when I pulled them up.

Katherine,

I have the "It is not the breed it is the handler" argument with people all the time. However, I can understand WHY people feel the way they do.

I just finished reading the book by Aphrodite Jones on the Diane Whipple mauling. The Presa is NOT A DOG for everyone. In the book there are pictures of the crime scene. It looked as if Freddy Kruger went through there. They also have photographs of her wounds. I can not imagine the pain and suffering she went through. There were 77 (?) wounds in all and (if memory serves correctly) in some instances they were not able to tell WHICH dog bit her.

Unfortunately, because of the notoriety of the MIAMI incident, I am sure (as in the case in San Francisco) that the demand for these dogs will increase. As we all know too well, not everyone is going to take the time to socialize, research and take care of the dog properly. You are also probably going to get a few who want to make the dog "meaner".

As an example I will use the subjects on the "Dog Whisperer". Imagine for a minute if say, NuNu (chihuahua), Emily (Pit Bull) or the little white dog that bit Cesar (I can't remember the dog's name) were Presas. How many people do you think would've been mauled?

Anyway, I wish you luck on obtaining a presa. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I am in the "be careful what you wish for" group. Do you really want that intense of an animal? <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Do you really want that type of responsibility? I recommend you read the book. It shows how callous the two lawyers were. It also shows how lack of discipline (and many other factors) lead to the death of one innocent woman.

One more thing, the book mentioned that one of the inmates is still involved in the presa breeding business.

Actually Cesar Milan devotes a bit of time to the incident in his book. Interesting take. No blame on the breed, but quick to point out the enormous amount of effort...mental and physical...an owner has to invest in a Presa. I would just struggle with ever wanting one in the first place, I guess. Neat animals but in terms of popular perception you might as well have a tiger or lion in the backyard (actually I think there are hundreds of lions and tigers in Minnesota, which I don't get for the life of me).

Bad enough when people catch their breath when I'm out walking my GSD. I think it's easy to draw all kinds of the wrong attention when you have a dog like that, like it or not. When the neighbors go home at night and Google "Presa Canario" they will get all kinds of bad impressions, independent of your dog and your capabilities. Just a PITA to deal with. I don't want a dog who is popularly stereotyped as the solution for people who find aggressive pit bulls boring....

We own two presas.

I've already made several aborted attempts to chime in with more detail and information here, just because I feel the need to provide a good, first hand perspective on what it's like to live with these dogs and what I know of their history - and it's turning out to be tough for me because I'm absolutely ill over the tragedy in Florida.

I'm not optimistic that we'll ever know all the circumstances surrounding this horrible tragedy. I really hope that more background information becomes available but I'm not optimistic due to all the sensationalism surrounding the breed.

I've honestly been physically sick over the whole thing and for that reason I just can't seem to put it all together myself - so I'll differ to two really good sources for accurate, objective information about the breed:

1) The El Presa forum http://forum.elpresa.com

2) Manuel Curto's site http://www.irema-curto.com/default_ing.htm (Curto is a "modern father" of the breed and a wealth of detailed, honest information)

There are many other good resources, obviously, but those are good starting points.

The bottom line is they're dogs. Big, powerful, capable dogs that will behave as dogs behave. Consequently, you don't want to do wrong by these dogs as the stakes are higher than they would be with a less-capable breed. That's what makes them "not for everyone."

We've put a lot of time, effort and commitment into getting it as right as we possibly can. As a result, the "return on investment" has been great for us. We owe Mr Frawley a great debt of gratitude for the mileage we've gotten from his site and forum. (thanks Ed)

If anyone has any questions about our personal experience with two presas, please ask anything and I'll be glad to answer as honestly and as accurately as possible. Every attempt I've made to offer up personal anecdotes about how wonderful our dogs are seem cliched in light of this tragedy, so I'm not going to bother. Suffice to say, our dogs have required a serious commitment. But, I have to say, being put in a situation where we MUST take our dogs seriously has made us much better dog owners than we might be otherwise and they've turned out to be wonderful, manageable dogs that we enjoy that much more as a result.

Our dogs' days are filled with cats, strangers, crowds, children, nail trimming, bathing, pills shoved down throats, chicken bones pulled out of mouths, strange dogs (kept at a distance), roughousing and various and sundry other things that might incite less stable dogs. There had been a couple of hairy moments of limits-testing early on, but with the help of this site and some other great resources, we were able to get them behind us (the Groundwork articles are cannon in our household). Bottom line is we're doing fine with our dogs, but there are some other dog owners in the neighborhood who probably would not do fine with them.

Regarding Jones' book, _The_Red_Zone_ - well, some of it definitely rubbed me the wrong way because much of what she writes about the breed is just true-crime pulp and plain inaccurate. That said, I found the book very informative regarding how the dogs in Ms Whipple's attack got to where they did. It's like step-by-step instructions on how to create a monster (unsocialized and poorly cared for from day one, allowed to kill livestock, always chained, etc, etc).

If any good at all came out of the SF attack, it's the wealth of background information on how to do everything exactly wrong.

DH