as i've stated before, i fully intend to get an e-collar and ed's dvd on the subject as soon as finances right themselves. however, i recently started dabbling in "remote corrections" using a paintball marker, and i thought i'd share my results.

my dog ruby minds great for the most part, but is going through a phase where she will mind with a very slow response, almost "when she feels like it". by the time i get close enough to her, it's far too late for a correction. so since the paintgun was sitting by the back door, i decided to give it a shot.

i chronoed (ie, velocity checked) the paintgun at 250fps. this is well below the recommended 275/280/290fps used in games (at 300fps a paintball can break the bones in your fingers, i wanted to stay well away from that velocity with my dog). i also won't use it if the dog is facing me, because i don't want to risk an injury to the eye or lips.

the results were astonishing. after just one pop on the butt, her recall is almost always instant. i decided to take my brother in law's dog, who has behavioral issues related to lack of attention outside as well. she will not mind under any circumstances in prey drive, and that's something i decided to work on.

i did the same thing with her.. i called heel, she delayed (i should point out that both dogs understand the commands, just choose when to mind them), she got popped on the butt. unfortunately, she went into avoidance (my brother in law used to hit her way too much), but i coaxed her out of it with a few more calm heel commands (no more paint though).

a couple more practice heel + releases, then i let my dog out as well, and both dogs began playing together just fine under my careful eye. they would both instantly recall when asked.

fast forward to yesterday. i was going to the store, decided to take both dogs (in the car). i open the door, step out and release them. a squirrel hiding by the christmas tree decides it has a better chance of fleeing than if it stayed unnoticed. destiny (brother in law's dog) gives chase, and i quickly call her to a heel. she literally hits the skids, back feet in the air front feed skidding. she flips around and comes racing back to me. this was from her full, normally incredibly intense prey drive.

i was ecstatic. this was a 110% improvement. in total, destiny's been painted twice (once outside, once for garbage), and ruby's been painted about four times (once for garbage, three times for slow responses to known commands). i haven't had to paint them all day.

the problem with doing it this way? they see me pick up the marker, and they definitely associate it with the sting + noise. they haven't yet started failing to mind without it, but i'm trying to carry it more often in the hopes that they'll "forget about it".

an e-collar, i could hide the remote in my pocket, and it'd be far easier to keep them from associating the device with the corrections.

but so far, so good

I have never seen a paint gun except in a movie.

Do they actually shoot paint? If so, how do you get the paint off the dogs later? What is a paintball marker? Are they cheaper than an electric collar? How far away can the dog be before it won't reach them? Just wondering. I am also planning to get an e-collar when I can afford one. But my dog runs the fence and it drive me CRAZY!

Angela,

A paint ball marker is the term used for a paint ball gun. They shoot a ball of paint. The paint is a gel inside a soft plastic like coating. The paints are water soluble, they wash off. You can look up pricing on web sites. Paint ball markers are a lot of fun, but they are dangerous too. Getting hit by a paint ball can be painful, and can take an eye out if the target isn't wearing eye protection. My son has two. I always make him wear eye protection when he is using it, because the paint balls can break inside the barrel and there could be "blow back" towards the shooter. And if I ever caught my son shooting our dog with one I'd take the paint ball marker away and ground him for two months.

Rich,
I am with you on that one. I guess this might be okay for a non working dog, but I would not want my dog to fear the sound of gun fire and paint ball gun does make a noise much like a pellet gun. So I guess if this works for folks that is fine for them, I just do not want my dog to jump when he hears what he thinks is gun fire and be afraid of that. I know we all have to use tools that are available to us, but I for one would avoid using anything that sounds like gun fire on a working dog. Besides, I have been hit with a few paint balls in my time and they smart like heck. So for me the low level on the E-Collar gets my vote, no noise and my dog will not fear gun fire.
I guess Rich has been hit a few times himself.. LOL
Jay

You mean they can SOUND like a real gun. Well that's no good for me, since my fence-running dog is a foster and he could (potentially) go to a hunting home. I don't want him to think the gun fire is a correction! LOL, the hunter shoots the rabbit and the dog runs back to the hunter! hehe. Very counter-productive.

How about selling the paintball gun and putting the money towards an e-collar ;-)

Me personally, I think you are crazy for trying this, even if it has worked so far! I know that you mentioned you only aim at the dog's hindquaters but what if the dog panics and turns around or what if you hit the "bullseye" of what you are aiming toward and break skin? You could cause an infection from the paint alone in an open wound! And then imagine how difficult it would be for the poor dog to defecate. Not to mention that you said you have been carrying it more often... I hope that you are not in public doing this, couldn't you be arrested? I know that an e-collar is an expensive piece of gear but sometimes sacrifices have to be made. I didn't really have the cash for mine when I got it but I felt that it was a required piece so I found a way. I don't mean to rant or target you (no pun intended) but have you really thought this through?

I think you can get your dog taken away for cruelty if anyone sees you doing this. Sell the paintball gun and get a real training tool. Paintballs bruise through sweatshirts. I'm sure your dog was not feeling to great after that.

 Quote:

unfortunately, she went into avoidance (my brother in law used to hit her way too much)

Three words: What... the.... hell.

I think you need to use the paintball gun on yourself (and your BIL) and reexamine how you approach training. Do you have any of Ed's videos? You must train your dog to respond to the commands under distraction. You cannot just train in your kitchen and expect your dog to obey you outdoors while Life rolls by. Get a leash, a long line, get some treats/toys, and TRAIN, not shoot the dog in the butt. Your dog isn't obeying out of desire, it's obeying out of FEAR because it knows that when you pick up that thing, it's going to get hurt very bad. Great job on instilling pain and fear in your dog.

Yes, this post really pissed me off. Please learn from your mistakes and save up money for a training video or two before you get an e-collar. Sell the gun on eBay, you might be able to get the Basic Dog Obedience video for the cost of the gun. Also, if you have a way to velocity check your paintballs, you can sell that as well in favor of an e-collar and training vids.

 Quote: Diana Matusik

... Do you have any of Ed's videos? You must train your dog to respond to the commands under distraction. You cannot just train in your kitchen and expect your dog to obey you outdoors while Life rolls by. Get a leash, a long line, get some treats/toys, and TRAIN ... save up money for a training video or two before you get an e-collar.

What she said. Number 1 is http://www.leerburg.com/302.htm

Then, when that's thoroughly learned and trained: http://www.leerburg.com/318.htm

Also, there are loads of Leerburg articles and free podcasts on training.

Training shouldn't be built on corrections. If a dog is obeying you only because he is fearing corrections then you really have a long way to go. I tend to think of corrections as something to guide your dog into pleasing you, in other words the dog already has to be cooperating with you in the first place. And this can only be done with the proper foundation...proper trust, proper communication, which should all really be done in a controlled environment where the dog can't possibly fail. It's really unfair, if you think about it--your dog isn't fully trained in the first place, you placed her far away, you expected her to obey knowing she wouldn't, and then you corrected her. What other choice does your dog have but to fear you, or even fear the world in general?