My mother-in-law took her 1 year old mixed mutt in for an annual check up. I had mentioned some of the problems with vaccines in the past to her, but she is all trusting of her vet. Well, in one visit here is the cocktail that her vet pumped into the poor dog.

1 Bordatella - bi annual, rabies, corona, lepto4, lyme, giardia, distemper da2pp and heartgard.

I was shocked when she told me what the vet had give her. She didn't have any worries except about what it had cost her.

Well, about a week later her dog started to develop 2 bald spots, just in front of her kidnew area on both sides.

Here is a pic of one side.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s195/keithjab/img005.jpg

I am certain this has to do with the vaccines.

1) What would you do about the "spots of hair loss"?
2) What about the vet, besides never going back there. Would you file a complaint somewhere?
3) The spots have been there about a week, would you take the dog right into the vet or give it awhile to see if it clears up on it's own? She is experiencing no other symptoms.

Hi Keith. I'm not sure how much influence you have over your mother in law. It seems apparent that you have read here, and possibly other places about the potential problems with over-vaccinations. Since you live in the Chicagoland area (according to you user info, which says Lombard IL) I would like to suggest a holistic vet in the area that I think I like.

I say "I think I like" because I've only met with her one time for a consult regarding my female show line GSD, and some obvious hormonal problems. Dr. Karen Becker had some very specific ideas about moderate treatments - things we can try naturally to support her hormonal system. She also supports raw/natural feeding. You WILL see THK (among other good stuff) in her lobby, but not a bag of Science Diet in site.

The first consult with her is a bit expensive, depending on what you consider expensive. But I am taking my female back to her in March for additional advice, and am talking to her by phone regarding my male who she has not yet seen, but who has an enlarged protate as a young male.

Some immediate things I like about her:

1) My female happened to be due for legally required rabies at the time we went for our visit. Her office staff said "you DO want the THREE YEAR rabies vaccine, RIGHT??" My regular vet of a trillion years has never offered me that, on any one of 4 total dogs. Thanks to Leerburg info, I was now prepared to ask, but I smiled when I didn't have to ask.

2) She recommended titer tests v. the other standard annual vaccines. I will be going to her in March for that on my GSD female.

Dr. Karen Becker is NOT an emergency care vet, and she will tell you that, and her staff will tell you that. When you go to her, be prepared to pay her for her time and expertise. She will help you work with your "close to home" vet in terms of what to ask for, and how to interpret it.

I do not regret a single $ I paid her. I will see her again. I could have spent the whole day and then some picking her brain - and she spent more than my allotted time with me as it was.

http://www.drkarenbecker.com if you are interested.

Best wishes,

Beth

A friend of mine has a malti-poo (hybrid*shakes head*)that had a reaction from the last set of vaccs she got, throwing up and diarrhea. The vet said that he uses the same dose of the combo(5-way vacc) on Great Danes and small breeds(I don't think that that's what they're supposed to do). And my choc lab pup had his last set of shots a month ago and he had a large lump where the shot was given, no balding, but it worried me because it was 2 days after the shot-it did get smaller and dissapear, but it was a reasction none-the-less. Go to a different vet and get the dog checked and treated. Hope your dog recovers alright.

just curious, do people report these reactions? when i eventually have to take the plunge and vaccinate my dog in order to register her (she lives inside, so i haven't really bothered yet) i'm going to damn well report any adverse reaction to something i'm forced to do to my dog.

found this link on ed's page, thought i'd post it here as well.

http://www.fda.gov/cvm/adereporting.htm

Jaime,

Your vet's office is supposed to notify the manufacturer if there is a vaccine reaction but I wouldn't leave something like that up to them. You absolutely should report any reaction but, unless the vaccine is causing deaths, don't expect the drug companies to do anything about it.

 Quote: Sarah_Morris

unless the vaccine is causing deaths, don't expect the drug companies to do anything about it.

Don't expect them to do anything EVEN IF the vaccine causes a death. They will justify it all day long, and make excuses.

WE need to be responsible for what happens to our dogs, from the get go. Don't blindly go along with this vaccine stuff and then complain when something happens to your dog.

Research first. Ask questions. Think for yourself. Learn about immunity. Then if you still want to vaccinate, do it. (I doubt that you will, once you learn the facts)

Personally I would rather fight a disease that the dog obtained naturally than deal with a lifetime of vaccine damage.

In the case of an already vaccinated and damaged dog, do a google search on homeopathic vets. Find one that will work with you and your dog (or your mother in law's dog)

Don't go back to the vet that injected all these vaccines into the dog and the first place, and expect to get the proper treatment. They will most likely give steroids and antibiotics which only make the problem worse in the long run. (masking symptons does not make a dog healthy!)

 Quote:

Personally I would rather fight a disease that the dog obtained naturally than deal with a lifetime of vaccine damage.

I remember how struck I was by this statement the first time I read it while I was learning about vaccinosis. I repeat this line, Cindy, whenever I'm asked why I don't want to vaccinate yearly and it stops the conversation cold. You really can't argue with it.

 Quote: beth fuqua

Hi Keith. I'm not sure how much influence you have over your mother in law. It seems apparent that you have read here, and possibly other places about the potential problems with over-vaccinations.

Beth, "influence", are you kidding. She thinks I am crazy for spending more then a few seconds dumping kibble into her bowl and actually caring about what our dog eats.

Though I think this incident will open her eyes some to what I have been trying to tell her all along.

Even if she had the facts and made a conscious decision to vaccinate, isn't it completely irresponsible of her vet to give that many at one time? I think she IS convinced already to NEVER go back to this same vet, convincing her to take her dog to a homeopathic vet may be pushing it though.

 Quote: cindy easton rhodes

Personally I would rather fight a disease that the dog obtained naturally than deal with a lifetime of vaccine damage.

Very well said. I will use this quote of yours from now on whenever I try to talk people out of going vaccine-crazy on their dogs.

I can't believe how scared dog owners are of the simplest diseases and how eager they are to vaccinate (on vets' advice of course). I can't imagine a human being vaccinated against colds (?!) and yet some vets, kennels and even obedience clubs will give you the dirtiest looks when you refuse to vaccinate against kennel cough http://www.gentlesoulsshepherds.com/mad.gif

My pup contracted kennel cough a couple of weeks ago, and boy was it a big deal!!
He coughed for a grand total of... one night... and that was the end of that (ok, he was sniffling a bit for a day or so). Heck, it takes me longer than that to get over a cold... maybe I need to switch myself to an all natural raw diet, haha.


About vaccines though, do you (Cindy) believe in never vaccinating a dog against anything no matter what?
Even distemper or rabies, if they were highly prevalent in your area?

I opted to get parvo, distemper and rabies for my pup, but only as a once-in-a-lifetime thing, and they were given many months apart. (Although the law here says rabies every year, it's actually entirely up to you whether or not to go ahead with that - I checked )

Isn't one vaccine (and its risks) worth the risk of contracting a nasty, lethal disease like distemper or rabies? (Surviving rabies is impossible without pre or post-exposure vaccines and surviving distemper can still leave a dog with permament damage, much like a vaccine).

What would you do if your non-vaccinated dog ever got badly bitten by a confirmed rabid animal? Just curious...

I've done plenty of research on the subject (even got help from my immunology/clinical microbiology supervisor at the university research hospital) and went through a huge number of scientific studies/articles. Rabies is not a "treatable" disease. In fact, the only cure for it is a series of vaccines, combined with anti-rabies immunoglobulin administered at the site of the bite, and even this treatment will only work before symptoms appear.

So far, I've only read of ONE case ever in recorded medical history, where a human survived a rabies infection once symptoms appeared. It was a young girl in the US, bitten by a rabid bat. She started showing symptoms of the disease before anyone realized that she'd been bitten and doctors tried a desperate attempt to save her by an immediate drug-induced coma and by loading her system with extremely potent anti-virals.

She actually survived with little permanent damage and is now a healthy teen last I heard...

However, other studies and doctors throughout the world tried replicating this procedure but it failed every time. Further analysis of the American girl's blood and DNA revealed that she had an unusually effective immune system for that type of infection (a genetic factor).

Death rates from rabies in India are astonishingly high in humans and in dogs and it's only in areas where vaccines were introduced that the epidemic has been somewhat controlled.

I admit, if I ever live in India, I would probably consider more frequent rabies vaccines than I would here... How about you? If the risks were that high, would you still go the no vaccines route? Again, just curious

If anyone is interested, I could go back and find the studies in question. There are thousands of them dealing with different rabies vaccines, their effectiveness and safety in field trials. Last time I checked, I believe that DNA vaccines against rabies were some of the longest-lasting and most protective ones.

Vaccines are not all alike. Their relative safety (none of them are risk free!) depends on a lot of factors. There were issues with very damaging vaccines in third world countries that had to resort to crude embryo-cultured vaccines because of lack of funds. They were effective and protective, but caused a lot of damage as well.

The newer vaccines made in a well-funded high tech laboratory are far safer than those... unfortunately vaccines geared towards dogs and other animals are very poorly regulated compared to those made for humans, so in the end, as Cindy always says, you owe it to your dogs to research everything for yourself.

Don't trust the "system" when it comes to dogs... the safety regulations are practically non-existent and products only evolve if consumers demand it

Just curious, but what "type" of remedies would a homeopathic vet consider to treat vaccine damage?

Not asking for a diagnosis and treatment plan online, just wondering what type of substances would be used.

Unfortunately I have trouble putting my faith into homeopathy as I do in traditional medicine (in which case it doesn't involve "faith", but science and evidence). I'm convinced that both work in some instances, but I worry about the lack of study regarding many homeopathic treatments.

The "all natural" doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of safety either. Some of the most poisonous and toxic substances known to man are found in nature (and haven't been replicated in the lab).

My pup's breeder is a great believer in homeopathy and uses a certified homeopath (lots of experience, highly respected and recommended) for her dogs.

I was talked into a free consultation with her (she's a very smart and wonderful person) and even tried some remedies for my dysplastic/arthritic 11-year-old female shepherd (tissue salts and some extract... forgot what it was exactly).

Apparently it has worked miracles for other dogs. I honestly have to say that I haven't seen much of an effect in my dog after treating her for over 4 months now...

I'd like to see studies evaluating these "remedies" to evaluate their effect (beyond placebo ) but haven't been very successful so far.

I'm definitely interested in finding out more though, since so many people have positive experiences with them. I just don't know where to look.


Keith, good luck with the dog.

As Ed would say, your case appears to be an instance of people-problems and not dog problems, hee hee.

Did you see any bumps on the skin of the dog?

My pup got (what I believe to be) a vaccine reaction to his parvo/distemper shot - note the little red spots over the side of his lower belly. He was about 3 months old at the time.

http://www.gentlesoulsshepherds.com/vaccine_rash.jpg

I tried discussing it with my vet and reporting it, but my vet (though being very sympathetic and hearing me out) said that he didn't believe it was vaccine-realted since it happened over a week after the shot.

I didn't really pursue it any further since I had (and have) no plans to ever vaccinate my pup again.

He did say that this was probably some minor bacterial overgrowth; this of course would be consistent with a post-vaccine reaction since vaccines negatively affect the immune system when given.

My pup was treated with antibiotics (eek, I know!) for the bacterial rash/bumps and it quickly disappeared. I gave him probiotics for a few days afterwards to try and compensate for the antibiotics. The problem hasn't returned.

Oh well... in the end it's up to us. Evaluate the evidence for yourself and don't believe everything your vet tells you (no matter how sympathetic and helpful they may be, which obviously is not the case for your mother-in-law's current vet - they often just don't know any better).