I'm working on sourcing my raw meat from a butcher, but currently I just feed what I can buy at the grocery store - I buy chicken leg quarters, drumsticks, ground turkey and beef, sometimes lamb, and various organ meats depending on what's in stock.

The chicken leg quarters often have quite a lot of fat on them, serious hunks of it near where the tail of the bird was (there is actually a bit of the tail included) I'm surprised that it's prepared this way for human use! We used to give Oscar the whole thing but after we neutered him in January I got concerned about a slow in his metabolism and possible weight gain, so I started skinning the meat and trimming the fat. When I buy ground beef I also go with the 70-90% lean stuff. He hasn't ended up gaining any weight and maintains a very fit physique - don't know if I'm being completely paranoid about all of this...

My question - Am I denying him GOOD fat trimming the really fatty skin off his chicken and buying lean beef, or is this a healthy, appropiate way to control weight (assuming he's getting *better* calories from more muscle and organ meat)? Would anyone do this regardless of weight concern just to keep most of the calories and nutrients coming from healthier animal parts? I know some fat is essential to a healthy body (just like in people) but if I were eating his meals I would definitely be cutting away what amounts to almost 1/4 cup of fat beforehand (and I only have 30 lbs on him!).

Can anyone with dogs neutered later in life (after 2 years) comment on changes in metabolism/physiology that required diet modification in this way? Everything I read says animals will need LESS food after altering, as much as a 1/3 less, though we haven't lowered the quantity at all (except the fat, which does = calories I guess...). He's quite active and when we cut down on quantity he gets skinny... maybe the RAW feeding lessens the chances of unhealthy weight gain across the board?

Any thoughts?
~Natalya

This is my own view on fat for dogs, after researching the way dogs use it similarly to the way humans use carbs. (This is about raw diets; the cooked fat in commercial foods is a whole 'nother thing, and does not even have the same chemical makeup as raw fats.)

For a healthy dog *on a raw diet*: I'd reduce the entire diet if necessary, but not one of the macronutrients. They need about 30% fat (IMO), which is approximately the way fat "comes" in wild prey. (If I had particularly fatty raw food, I'd probably tear off and discard big hanging fat pieces, too, if there was a weight concern, because I'd think that it was fattier than what I have seen of game meat, rabbit meat, etc.).

If I cut down on quantity and saw the dog get too thin, then I would leave it as is.

Healthy dogs don't have the sat fat problems that humans may have, BTW.

Again, this is strictly the result of my own reading and is not authoritative.

I would add that we have to be very careful about books and web sites that discuss fat requirements (or "dangers") for dogs, because so many are basing their premises on the cooked fat in kibble.

I would add too that some dogs who are just switching to raw food might well need the raw fat part to be introduced more slowly than the meat and bones.

I feed my Bloodhound and Dutch (both altered males) the leaner meats and what I trim I give to my intact Mal (F). She is SO hard to keep weight on. She is SO active and busy that I HAVE to keep her crated alot of the time. The boys stay at a good weight and if I work them really hard I leave the fat on.

Blood work, fecals, physical structure is good and she is healthy but she just paces her kennel at a full jog constantly. She is eating 5 to 6% of her body weight right now. So the fat I trim from the boys goes to her.

Connie, do you have any details on why dogs fare better with saturated fats than humans?

I've always wondered about that but have no clue as to the answer, lol.

Also, is there a recommended ratio of saturated to unsaturated fats? I'm still stuck in the human metabolism and physiology frame of mind, so what I did with my older dog was to cut down on the saturated fats and increase her intake of cold water fish.
My thinking was that she's still getting the fats, only they are more beneficial fats.

Of course I based my logic on my knowledge of human nutrition, not dog nutrition... it would be nice to know if there's a certain "requirement" of sat vs unsaturated fats in a dog's diet (and how said requirement varies depending on climate, activity level, age, physical condition etc.)

I'm confused, but if anyone can answer this it's you Connie - our board's walking, talking, typing encyclopedia on anything dog health related

Thanks Connie, Oscar's been on RAW for over a year now and hasn't had a problem with any of the ingredients (fat or no). What you said makes total sense and maybe I'll just start leaving more of the fat on and reduce the total meat amount a little... Can't hurt to tinker with amounts slowly, as you can easily see changes in skin/coat, weight and energy levels after short periods of testing.

~Natalya

 Quote: Yuko Blum

....do you have any details on why dogs fare better with saturated fats than humans?...

Because although dogs get heart disease, and pretty commonly, they just about never get coronary artery disease; dogs are very resistant to coronary artery disease, and what is sometimes called a heart attack in a dog is usually a collapse due to heart failure or other heart-related problem, and not a real infarct.

They do have heart failure and valve problems and so on, but not the plaque-related heart attacks that people have.

Am I correct in that the chicken fat I'm talking about is considered saturated fat? Is this the same type of fat that would accumulate in, say, a bunny? or a cow, or other animal? Or do all of these critters contain stores of both types? Maybe the giant solid chunks I cut off are saturated, and the more sinewy streaks through the muscle are unsaturated... I knew fish, cold water fish specifically, had a different type of fat that's considered better for humans (as Yuko stated) but is it better for dogs?? And Yuko, in what form do you feed your fish? whole?

Carol, do you think your altered males need less fat because they are altered, or just a different energy level than your female - who sounds pretty intense?! If you knew them before altering, did you notice a change afterwards?

~Natalya

Yep, I feed whole raw sardines and mackarel (I buy frozen).

I know all the reasons why the fat from those fish is beneficial to dogs, but I wonder if dogs have a "need" for saturated fats as well. I really have no clue

 Quote: Natalya Zahn

Carol, do you think your altered males need less fat because they are altered, or just a different energy level than your female - who sounds pretty intense?! If you knew them before altering, did you notice a change afterwards?

~Natalya

Different energy levels really. I did not know these two dogs before altering so I cannot say there. I have not had an animal altered for so long that I really cannot remember if there were diet/weight issues or not.

I increase and decrease diets as needed as it is now, so I am sure it would not be much different for an altered dog.

(And Yes, my girl is intense..... (and I like it that way)