Alright, the story leading up to this questions is long. I'll try to summarize.

I had been looking for a medium/strong drive Czech dog. I wanted a dog to work PPD, obviously heavy OB, and be a family companion. Maybe companion is the wrong word. House dog, anyway. Through a convoluted series of events, we have a 4 month old puppy in our home who is from german show lines (father) and german show with a couple working dogs in the pedigree (mother). The father seems to be civil, but after reading a post about "true civil" and testers evoking Schutzhund training inadvertantly, I'm not 100% sure anymore. (Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Jenni).

At the breeders house she showed good drive, and was not the least bit timid.

We brought her home last night, put a collar on her (for the first time) and a leash (also for the first time) and let her out of the car. She totally froze. Wouldn't walk on the leash at all. I know that not walking on a leash is not unusual for puppies. In any event, I carried her into the house, and she remained completely timid. In order for her to enter any room I had to walk in before her and stand with my back to her, eventually she'd walk to my side. Once she was acclimated to the house and the backyard I tried to take her down to the mailbox with me. She wouldn't step off the front porch. I had to add a longer line and act like I was just going to leave her there, then she ran after me, tail down.

This was all the first night, the night that we brought her home. This morning I took her out at 5 and worked her for a few (very short) minutes on a lunge whip with a kong. She tore after it, cornered pretty well and enjoyed her trophy. If I try to stimulate prey drive with an item in hand (orby, tug) she makes some half-hearted bites in the direction of the item, and that's about it.

When I let her out of her crate in the morning she's a jumping fiend, going after my hands if they move at all, totally crazy. But I know that's puppy exuberence, and may not be indicative of real drive.

I guess my questions are mostly about temperament and drive:

1. The timidity she displayed really concerns me. Is it too soon to judge her for this? If she's actually this timid, I don't see how she'll work out for us. She wasn't showing this degree at her breeders.

2. Should I be worried about her prey drive? She seems like she could chase the kong for hours (though I keep it very short, concerned about her hips) but she has much less interest in prey items in my hands. Is she too young to be making these assessments?

Her mother was great with prey. Borderline obsessive with strong focus.

She follows me around, but she has the ability to leave my side if something catches her attention, so I won't call this a bad thing. I think she needs to have a certain degree of independance to do any serious work (Carol Boche's definition of Velcro is what I want to avoid) and if I'm stationary she'll wander off, but as soon as I get up and start to move she's at my heels (or walking between my legs).

Thoughts? Expert opinions? Denegrations? Belittlement?

 Quote: david eagle

The father seems to be civil, but after reading a post about "true civil" and testers evoking Schutzhund training inadvertantly, I'm not 100% sure anymore. (Thanks for bringing that to my attention, Jenni).

The reason I wanted you to read this is that what your decoy did should have elicited a response from a blind and deaf pomeranian. Pushing a dog out of the way and making threatening movements toward the handler is not something only a civil dog would have a problem with. I think a dog who didn't bite the guy would have to be nearly dead. JMO. This would not, in any way, make me think this dog is necessarily civil enough for what you want, and especially not civil enough to necessarily pass this trait on. I think it takes sometimes 2 extremely over the top dogs to produce decent ones...again, JMO.

Haha. I know why you brought it up, and you're absolutely 100% right.

 Quote:

blind and deaf pomeranian

Aww, but look how cute he is...

LOL! But David really does need input. Anyone?

 Quote: David Eagle

1. The timidity she displayed really concerns me. Is it too soon to judge her for this? If she's actually this timid, I don't see how she'll work out for us. She wasn't showing this degree at her breeders.

I like pup (and younger dog) prospects that are wide open and maybe even a little diffcult to call back at first because they are SO interested in investigating new surroundings. But I will give pups a week or two to acclimate and see what comes out of them then too.......

 Quote: David Eagle

2. Should I be worried about her prey drive? She seems like she could chase the kong for hours (though I keep it very short, concerned about her hips) but she has much less interest in prey items in my hands. Is she too young to be making these assessments?

Mmmmmm, that is a tough one, since drives can be built up....with time and patience. Have you tried a puppy tug or jute roll to get her to tug with you? Even an empty burlap sandbag rolled up and taped on the ends can elicit a good game of tug.
The other thing that it could be is she may be teething and although she can decide pressure on her tender gums, we necassarily cannot so she may be avoiding taking things due to a bit of pain.

Frozen washcloths or rags to chew on can help this immensley.



Just a couple of thoughts for ya.....

Thanks for that, Carol. I agree about the "open and investigative" bit.

I'll add this to the picture of this girl: today in the back yard she snapped because the Sheltie got too close to her while she had a bone. A little later, I was petting her and he walked close, she snapped again. Not serious attempts to bite, but warnings.

Then, just now, he goes to pick up a sock off the floor, she sees him, and gives a low growl-bark, and he immediately flops onto his side. It looked like he'd been shot. From "gonna steal a sock" to "You killed me, I'm dead" in the blink of an eye, with a bark.

You could give the pup time to acclimatise to its new home and surroundings, Why the need to push it to see what drive it has, The Pup hardly knows you or your family or its new home, A bit of Patience is needed on your part before evaluating the Pup thats what i think

I have a few concerns here. Where did you get this dog and what were her living conditions? You stated the dog has never worn a collar or a used a leash before. Why not? She's 4 months old. I would think a reputable breeder would have spent some time using one on her because that's part of the basics. What kind of socialization experiences has she had before you came along?

I can understand a dog being timid in a new environment. How would you feel if your situation was reversed? Give her a couple of weeks to get used to your household routine and if you still have concerns contact the breeder and discuss it.

I am concerned about the food aggression she is already showing towards your other dog because she has been there for such a short time and is already showing her dominant side.

Well, call me weird, but I'm not "concerned" about this pup at all. David, you just brought her home! Not all dogs act exactly the same to every situation. That doesn't mean the dog is not up to "par". There aren't just drives to consider, there's personality too. Coupled together.

I guess I'm trying to say that the pup needs a break from too much concerned judgment at this time. I understand your expectations, I really do. But time tells a lot. So give her some time to adjust to you. She's not 8 weeks, she's been somewhere else for 4 months! Adjustment time will be longer than if she were just an 8 week old.

I'm also not at all concerned that she showed any dominance to your other dog. Just correct it (appropriate for her age) and train her through it. She's 4 months old, a baby, so getting a little feisty with another dog is not something to already tag her with the "aggressive" label.

I don't see a problem. You said "At the breeders house she showed good drive, and was not the least bit timid." She was in a place she was familiar with and was blossoming and I'd hold off on serious assessment until she's familiar with her new family and home.