i'm confused.

first let me say that this website, discussion board and the people that post to it have been very informative over the relatively short time i've been visiting. and i appreciate the knowledge and experience that's been passed down and feel it's a collection of some of the best information available for training and everything else.

secondly, let me say that this post is not meant to be inflammatory or as an attack on anyone. but i feel compelled to ask some questions.

looking through the archives, anytime anyone posts a question about considering the switch to a raw diet (myself included), pro-raw people flock to post faster than their pentium processors. however, a few days ago, i posted some questions based on blood work taken on my GSD who's been fed raw for @ 7 months. the sole reason for having the tests done was to check on the progress of his diet and make sure he was getting what he needed. the results showed a few MINOR deviations, and i asked if anyone who's been feeding raw for any amount of time has ever had similar results and could recommend some changes to my diet that might help.

i got nothing.

so i ask: have any of you ever had lab work done on your raw-fed dogs to check for possible defeciancies or imbalances?

have your feelings towards veterinary medicine in general caused you to circumvent testing, or were you not aware that tests can be done that can indicate basic nutritional deficiencies and imbalances?

here's where i come out on the whole raw feeding thing: i'm not a vet. not even close. i work in advertising, for christ's sake. i may be called upon to hock one of those dirty kibbles some day.

but i am a logical thinker. i've read the shutlze(sp?) book. i've read countless postings on countless web boards. but i've also looked at the merck vet. manual and researched other info on boards that are based on science and medicine and read articles by veterinarians. i've asked questions - my brother is a vet (and not a raw fan) and of my local vet.

the results? i firmly believe that it is possible to put together a diet at home that can reach and maintain the nutrition necessary for a healthy, active dog. yes, there are risks. but i think we all agree that there are plenty of risks with the alternative as well.

this is not based purely on anecdotal evidence (although i've seen it all and agree). it's based on logic and research.

and yes, even the more educated -- and scientific --opinions of people like vets and others with training in nutrition.

including a vet that admitted that they had 2 (TWO) courses on nutrition in vet school. the same vet that told me she's eager to 'watch and learn' as my dog grows up on this 'crazy diet.' the same vet that told me she was impressed when i politely disagreed with a course of treatment she recommended because the research and questions i've asked suggested it would be a bad idea with his diet, which she admitted she has no experience with.

but i digress.

what i really want to know is: where are all of the raw feeding 'experts' (not meant sarcastically, but rather because is anyone really an 'expert' at this yet?) who are so eager to encourage newcomers to feed raw when someone posts a serious, health-related question concerning said diet?

myself, i will continue continue to feed raw. i will continue to learn, research and ask questions. i believe it can work, but i believe that science can help me do it the right way.

again, i'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, although i know some will take it that way. i just want to be able to spark some conversation that goes a little deeper than shiny coats and pearly teeth.

i will, however, be very disappointed if it turns out that all the evidence used to support raw feeding by people who so whole-heartedly promote it turns out to be purely anecdotal after all.

respectfully,
chris bettin

Originally posted by chris bettin:

so i ask: have any of you ever had lab work done on your raw-fed dogs to check for possible defeciancies or imbalances?

I did not answer when I saw this post because I have not had a blood panel done to check on a raw fed dog. I used to have them done regularly on a senior dog, but that was before I was feeding raw.


have your feelings towards veterinary medicine in general caused you to circumvent testing, or were you not aware that tests can be done that can indicate basic nutritional deficiencies and imbalances?

here's where i come out on the whole raw feeding thing: i'm not a vet. not even close. i work in advertising, for christ's sake. i may be called upon to hock one of those dirty kibbles some day.

but i am a logical thinker. i've read the shutlze(sp?) book. i've read countless postings on countless web boards. but i've also looked at the merck vet. manual and researched other info on boards that are based on science and medicine and read articles by veterinarians. i've asked questions - my brother is a vet (and not a raw fan) and of my local vet.

the results? i firmly believe that it is possible to put together a diet at home that can reach and maintain the nutrition necessary for a healthy, active dog. yes, there are risks. but i think we all agree that there are plenty of risks with the alternative as well.

this is not based purely on anecdotal evidence (although i've seen it all and agree). it's based on logic and research.

and yes, even the more educated -- and scientific --opinions of people like vets and others with training in nutrition.

including a vet that admitted that they had 2 (TWO) courses on nutrition in vet school. the same vet that told me she's eager to 'watch and learn' as my dog grows up on this 'crazy diet.' the same vet that told me she was impressed when i politely disagreed with a course of treatment she recommended because the research and questions i've asked suggested it would be a bad idea with his diet, which she admitted she has no experience with.

but i digress.

what i really want to know is: where are all of the raw feeding 'experts' (not meant sarcastically, but rather because is anyone really an 'expert' at this yet?) who are so eager to encourage newcomers to feed raw when someone posts a serious, health-related question concerning said diet?

There is a group of 'expert' raw feeders available with the education to back up the information which you seek on the yahoo group k9nutrition. There are regular discussions about a specific dog's specific test result and diet recommendations made. This board is primarily a dog training board.

Deanna


respectfully,
chris bettin

I have never done lab work to check on my dog's nutritional status. But...I have never done lab work to check on my own or that of my five children either! I am always amazed that we seem to have confidence to feed ourselves and our kids safely but don't believe we can feed our dogs without a pre-packaged food! How many of you used pre-packaged 'kid kibble' with your children? My dogs do great with a common sense approach to raw food and though I have probably studied dog nutrition more than that of humans, I am no expert. I don't think it is as complicated as some people fear. Just my thoughts....

I switched my 2 yr old Rott to a raw diet at 11 months. Before the switch he had a complete blood panel done in our efforts to stop his constant diarhea. Since the switch, I have had his blood work done every six months and will continue to do so. The pre-raw blood work was normal for a healthy young dog. The 2 post-raw ones have been excellent with the vet commenting each time that he is the healthiest dog he has ever seen inside and out.

Sharon Poteet

have any of you ever had lab work done on your raw-fed dogs to check for possible defeciancies or imbalances?
No, I have not had blood work done to check for possible defeciancies or imbalances.

However, I have had blood work done on most of my dogs for other reasons. They all get a geriatric panel done once they hit 8-9 yrs. old. Thus far on every dog the blood work has come back as very good. Everything in balance and at good levels. (at this point all my dogs have been on raw since birth and/or for 9 yrs. of thier life).

I also had blood work done on my 7 yr. old when I spayed her. Her blood work came back excellent. I also had blood work done on a dog that had a tumor. That even came back very good even though a tiny portion of the tumor was malignant. That was 2 yrs. ago and she is doing great and her blood work still is good.

Thus, my experience's tell me that my dogs are doing great on raw with normal/very good blood work ups when they are older. I am assuming that this is also true when they are younger.

this is not based purely on anecdotal evidence (although i've seen it all and agree). it's based on logic and research Thus my experiences, evidence and logic shows me that what I am feeding/doing is working very well for my dogs. They are living vibrant, active lives with few or no health problems and living to a good age.

who are so eager to encourage newcomers to feed raw when someone posts a serious, health-related question concerning said diet?
Right now, I am working full time, lambing with my flock of sheep, working my dogs and still trying to get a good nights sleep.

I have been away for a good while but, yes, I have had minor panels (not full blown panels but pre-surgical type panels) done annually and they are just fine and have been feeding BARF for several years. Actually pre BARF one dog had elevated ALT (but that could have been due to heavy excercise) but it was normal this time.

Dog is just healthier -- all the way around.

I am still new to feeding raw but with each and everyday I can see the good results. My pup is has just turned 1 year old and when he goes in for his checkup I will of course have blood work done. I already know what the results will be they will be perfect. You have to understand what some vets (who are very opposed to raw diets) may consider abnormal other vets who take a more natural approach consider them well within healthy ranges. If you go to the list that was posted here you will find a great amount of knowledge. I applaud you for sticking with the raw diet for your dog.