In Shutzhund Training, I need to know the steps from puppy imprinting to adult dog.... from getting the bite, when and how to train an ouust, iniating defense drive, - all the whys you do these things and how ---- reason being is that my Dad would like to know. I can't explain much because I'm still learning myself and he gave me the third degree ..... your help is appreciated. I'll print all your replies, so if you could also sign your name, # of years training, and # of dogs trained, it'd definately help convince him...... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

It is like teaching children. There are no hard fast rules. I don't do Schutzhund, I train for PPD only. Most of the basics are the same. Everybody does it a little different, especially at the begining. Some start obedience at once, others wait to even start obedience until the dog is 1 year. Most start some bite imprinting as soon as possible playing tug-of-war games. Others wait until the dog is more mature often waiting until the dog the is 1-2 years old. Out is also started in different manners. Some start as soon as possible treating out as almost an obedience command, others wait until formal bite training and only associate the command with bite work.

With this wide of a range for everything it comes down to the preferance of the trainer. Over the years I have become more and more convinced that starting earlier is better than later. Some basic manners at minimun must be taught. Bite imprinting is better done at the begining so that it is just a game that the dog plays until defense is introduced. As with children puppies are often quick to pick up things and it is easier to train them since they are smaller and more impressionable. I start some obedience as soon as the puppy comes home (all positive little or no corrections), I do basic tug-of-war and I teach out as an obedience command. For my dogs out is a general command that means "stop what you are doing". Many people teach the command similar to "give" in retrieving. I don't do a formal retrieve so I don't teach it, but I would start with it as a puppy.

The biggest thing is all puppy training should be fun for the puppy. Anything that isn't fun for the puppy now will be a chore later (just like kids). If I were to start over now I would watch some trainers work with dogs of all ages. Talk with other people there and see if they are happy with the training. Do you like the way the dogs work? Are they happy while they are training? Keep in mind that it can be hard to break in to these groups. These are often tight knit groups and it may take a bit to convince them you are serious. Once you make a descision follow the trainers recomendations unless you come to a point that you just can't work out. Consistancy is important with dog training (just like kids). This is a good place to check if something doesn't seem right. If it feels wrong you are probably right.

Rich

Training over 20 years 6 of my own dogs and helping and watching hundreds under 6 different trainers. I also did training for others in both group and private settings.

rottweiler_fancier:

Wow. You want all the steps from imprinting to a fully trained adult. How about narrowing that down just a bit?

Narrowing Down...that'd be easier without him saying "ok what now" --- since he thinks the dog is ready for everything in a matter of days. One of those trainers who took other people's dogs for 8 wks, got a list of what needed trained, and did it.

How about starting with a young dog on a soft sleeve. What next? Do you just keep building up to a harder, adult sleeve. When does the Out command come into play, and what would be taught next. Blind searches? Bark and Hold? I'm getting info off Eds Library, I just don't know how to put it into order <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The steps involved from taking a puppy and training through a solid SchH Protection dog for sport could take 2 - 3 years. It is a very slow and tedious process. As a puppy you might train 5 minutes a day for 4 months straight before moving on to step 2. If you are looking for a fast solution you best bet is to buy a finished process.

The problem is, I understand how long it takes but its my dad who's recommending 1-2 hour training sessions a day and when I try to explain that Zak is still a pup, he says it doesn't matter. And I say it does. And he says why. And then I try to explain Shutzhund training (which is what I want to do with Zak) to the best of my ability and I still get more whys ... I was hoping to get a layout of what kind of training I'll be doing just to, essentially, shut him up and get him to back off.

Rottweiler Fancier,

This is fairly simple. A 2 hour training session is too long for an adult, let alone a puppy. Most puppies will tell you when they are done. What you are talking about is about equivalent to trying to get a 5 y/o to read War and Peace in one sitting. The only thing you will accomplish is to sour the dog on training or the child on reading. I don't remember how old your puppy is, but my 4 month old has an attention span of about 20 minutes. After that there is no point in attempting to do any more because it is just counter productive. My full trained adult dog can do about 30-40 minutes of obedience before his attention starts to wander. If you give him a break you can get about that much more and then he is done for the day. With agitation 2-3 10 min sessions is about it, and only with a 10-15 minute break in between. With the puppy tug/rag work is about 10 minutes 2 times a day and that is about it. For obedience the most I would do with a puppy is 15 minutes 2-3 times a day well spread out. More than that and the dog will start to balk on commands and then you are just training the wrong things.

If it were me I would explain that it is your dog and you will train it the way you see fit. Especially since yat this point you are better off with only one handler working the dog. No one else should work the dog until the obedience is very reliable. Everybody has different styles when they work a dog and that would be confusing for a puppy.

20 minutes?! Wow, Richard! You can get your 4 mo pup to focus for 20 mins at a time??? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> That *is* alot.
I don't push for much beyond 5 mins w/pups. My Mink g.d. at 16 mos still gets drifty after about 10 mins.

Richard:

You have more than proved your knowledge of training on this board so take my and joy’s curiosity as just that but I'm with her. 2-5 minutes is all I can get?!?

Rot…

The best I could do for you is to direct you to Ed’s articles where you will find the rule book for a SchH trial. It lists all activities.

Joy & Vince,

About 20 mins now. She will kill for a very thin slice of hot dog! I have actually taken it easier on her. I usually work my puppies starting with 15 min 3 times a day. As they learn more things I work up to around 30 min by 6 months. A lot of what we are working on is increasing the length of her stays. When I start serious agitation I want them to hold an out of sight down for about 20 mins.

I am not working a strict attention heeling at this point. I paln to tighten that up later as we get closer to trialing and they are not a tight on that in NAPD as Sch or AKC obedience. So I am working on the functional stuff. Right now she will hold a sit or down stay for around a minute. Does a beautiful come. She heels fairly well and does both types of about turns (left and right). Whe is starting to get a military finish up colse and at distance. We are working on position changes at a distance and are up to about 6 feet, and walking sits. She does look away if a distraction comes up but will refocus immediatly for an "actung". When we do a recall to a heel she does have a tendancy to heel on the right if she is called from that direction. We are working on that. She is about 80% reliable on hand commands only, so she has to pay attention to me and can't wait on a voice command.

One of the things I have found is that you can haold a puppies attention longer if the training is varied in what you do so they have to concentrate on what you are doing. At one point I read some research done by the Guide Dog Assoc. on puppy training. What they had found is start the puppy on obedience at about 6-10 weeks and work 15 mins a day 3 times a day. Again what they are looking at is companion level obedience. My dogs are not just compitition dogs, but companion dogs also. The companion part is what is most important to me and I need to get it out of the way so we can spend more time out in public doing socialization.