I heard a remark from a friend of mine the other day that kind of irritated me. Especially since this friend does NOT trail with their dog. But then it got me thinking.... He said "I'd like to see people stop using flags on trails because I think what we have is a bunch of really good FLAG FOLLOWERS." I immediately started defending my practices while agreeing with him that yes, I would prefer GPS trails. But, it is so difficult at times to get a qualified individual behind me with the GPS to tell me if we are off (so I can help/check my dog)that it just seems more idiot-proof to use flags.

Then it dawned on me: what if he meant the FLAG FOLLOWERS are the people? Personally, I don't think it really fazes the dog to have the flags. I have watched her work spoked wheels and split trails with no problem, selecting the correct path. I have also watched her cut in to a trail (not next to a flag) with a nice headsnap on too many occasions to make me believe she is looking for flags. I have also watched her scent to the next leg countless times when I thought she was about to take us to Tim Buk Too (aha, shortcut!) And I never catch her looking up in the trees when the flags are clipped overhead...

So, what to people think about whether or not to use flags in training? What I DO notice is, on the few occasions I get a nice experienced handler behind me for a GPS trail I get pretty nervous...I think flags are great if you need them, but GPS'ing it with a buddy will force you to learn to read your dog and TRUST your dog. If only I could convert more people to trailing....

I think flagging is great when you are learning to read your dog or doing a new trail variant - and you want to make sure you read the dog correctly at the location. They very much can become a crutch for the handler.

Other than that, that is why it takes a team to train a dog. I think the best way is if a flanker knows exactly where the subject went (they have a way of varying from verbal directions) and follows with you.

I use flags when training a young dog, problem solving or when i am working with a new team and I am trying to see what the team works like.
Other than that, I rely on my dog, myself and my flanker (if I have one). Sometimes it is difficult for me to get a flanker when I am training at home and not with my team.

I truly believe that flags can become a crutch and that GPS trails are the way to go. And I also would not take it personally with a comment like was made.

I have seen flag dependent handlers and they absolutely did not know what to do when I took the flags away, but, their dog did.
The hardest part about blind trails (which all trails are blind to the dog) is the handler. It goes to show how reliant they really are on the flags. If you watch closely, some handlers will gravitate towards the flags even though the dog is working well and giving all indications that they are "on scent".

My bloodhound will work the fringe of a trail quite a bit, but I have worked him for so long that I know when he is working and when he is messing around (which he will do if I work him too much, he has a "Mom, if you can't read me by now, I am going to take you for a run and then work the trail" kind of attitude). So unless I am working on a specific sequence (start, corners, back tracks ect....) I do not use anything but my GPS (one with the victim, one on the dog and one with me) and I make sure that there is radio contact with the victim.

I have seen dogs that relied on flags, actually checking each one as they worked trail and I have also seen a dog that was on trail and jumped the trail due to a line of flags that were marking a phone cable.
These are handler issues, they themselves have relied on flags, gravitated towards flags (essentially leading their dog) so that the dog, IMHO, has learned that the flags mean the reward is somewhere close.

Is there a way you can set up some trainings as far as a GPS class?
And another class I really like is a man tracking class. Joel Hardin does some great work and is a great instructor as far as teaching humans to look for signs of human presence. I believe this is essential training for all aspects of SAR and that everyone on the team should have this type of training. K9 handlers included.

It is imperative that a flanker be trusted and good at what they do, as their job is absolutely vital to a team. If you cannot trust a flanker to be able to watch surroundings, know where the team is at at ALL times and look for landmarks and know how to handle a GPS unit then I would not use them.

Flanker training is very important. When I train with my fire deparment and we have a new flanker, we always take an experienced one along so that training can take place.

I took it personally because at first I thought he was maligning my dog at any rate, the reason I have been flagging is because the subjects often don't follow instructions (arg, so hard to find good ones!) and there is usually a shortage of competent flankers. I myself would prefer to GPS since that will force me to trust my dog.

The problem is not only does the flanker need to know how to use a gps, they also need an awareness of HOW terrain/weather affects scent in order to accurately let me know whether we are 'on' or not. I don't have very many fellow trailers with me that often which makes setups like that difficult. I do agree that some dogs may use the flags - I just haven't noted it with mine. But it is a big crutch (for me). I like the idea of TRAINING someone to flank...stupid me, didn't even think of that!

Also, I love the idea of mantracking. There is a class offered in Idaho but I haven't had time to take it just yet. I think signcutting would be an invaluable tool when running a trailing dog.

When I started in SAR as a flanker, learning to read a TOPO map was foremost. Once you understand them they are quite easy to use. That's what we used during training and actual searches.

 Quote: julie wilson

I took it personally because at first I thought he was maligning my dog at any rate, the reason I have been flagging is because the subjects often don't follow instructions (arg, so hard to find good ones!)

I hear ya and have been there too.

You are right about "victims" as well. We train them as well and usually use other handlers or fire department people.

Also, pre-teen age kids or even teens (girl scouts or boy scouts have badges they can earn) are great to use as well. I have Trae, who is a really good kid and he can handle all of my dogs, lays trail like a fiend and takes care of my dogs when I am gone. He is 15 and number one in our state for shooting sports so he and I target practice a lot too.

When he is bored (which happens alot in this town for the kids) he will call and let me know he is going out to the house to run the dogs with the four wheeler or that he went and laid a trail for me to run after work.
He has also been trained (and permission given by his parents) to go out and handle cadaver source and hide it for me.

Now he has a friend interested so this weekend we will do some training with him.

The only thing I would hesitate about is your flanker telling you if you were "on" or not.....are you meaning that you are "on scent"? If so, that would be your dogs job and you reading your dog.....

OR do you mean, being able to know where the victim went and the flanker can generally tell you are correct? This I can understand.

I never ask until Max is just giving me the WTF? look, which usually means I missed something. He and I usually just go back to where I know he was in scent, regroup and work it out.

The only thing I would hesitate about is your flanker telling you if you were "on" or not.....are you meaning that you are "on scent"? If so, that would be your dogs job and you reading your dog.....

OR do you mean, being able to know where the victim went and the flanker can generally tell you are correct? This I can understand.

I need to make sure my dog is not following crosstracks - I have to be able to 'check' her if she goes off scent because we are still in the training stages, working towards certification. If, however, she chooses to cut over to the next leg that is acceptable and the flanker needs to know to NOT tell me to interfere if she is doing that. The goal is for the dog to learn we only get to go FORWARD when we are 'on scent'.

 Quote: julie wilson

The only thing I would hesitate about is your flanker telling you if you were "on" or not.....are you meaning that you are "on scent"? If so, that would be your dogs job and you reading your dog.....

OR do you mean, being able to know where the victim went and the flanker can generally tell you are correct? This I can understand.

I need to make sure my dog is not following crosstracks - I have to be able to 'check' her if she goes off scent because we are still in the training stages, working towards certification. If, however, she chooses to cut over to the next leg that is acceptable and the flanker needs to know to NOT tell me to interfere if she is doing that. The goal is for the dog to learn we only get to go FORWARD when we are 'on scent'.

Ahhh, I see. I would agree with that. I misunderstood there for a bit.

I know...this is such difficult business! The problem lies in the fact that often the dog appears to be working when they have abandoned the designated trail. Because they are still working - just not on what YOU asked them to work on...lol Therein lies the rub.