I havent been here for a while, my husband started traveling tons and it leaves me with so little time to do anything!
Fargo is now over 40 lbs and a big lanky teenage 20 week old rotten little darling.
He is a total brat at this point, I guess it is the age and possibly partly the breed, puppies are like childbirth and I dont remember if Levi was such a brat at this age.. but im pretty sure he was.

He is a smart little thing though and an absolute joy to train new behaviors with, he has known sit, paw, down, wait (5 seconds)since he was 10-13 weeks and we have added spin, back up, stand, bow, and he will Touch (nose to palm) in just about any position or location I have tried on the first or second try.
stopping unwanted behaviors is another issue altogether but it is getting better, slowly.

He will leave 2 of three cats totally alone, several good swipes to the nose taught him, as well as making him watch the cats eat everday before he can have breakfast.

The other cat enjoys playing with him and instigates it, so I allow some gentle playing but intervene as soon as it gets rough.. I figure if the cat had a problem with it he would have the claws and teeth out in a hurry, and also wouldnt cuddle with him to sleep!

We are about halfway through teething, his front teeth are all in except for one canine and his back teeth are coming in. He isnt a chewer though except for paper...he loves to shred any paper product into tiny tiny bits. He doesnt eat the paper or anything else really he just likes to make it into tiny pieces


SO here is the only problem, he has gone from super shy with everyone but the three of us to somwhat reserved with brand new people. But with returning guests or people we see out and about regularly he is a total Brat...

With all the socialization we have been doing he learned that people other than family equal treats in abundance and anytime he was near someone...

Generally whenever anyone is coming over the big dogs are gated into the hallway to watch and get over the new person and let out about 20 minutes later when their brains are functioning again.

This is to avoid the chaos of two over excited lovey dovey dopey hounds.

Fargo stays in the living room with me and the new person though because it gives him time to acclimate and calmly greet or meet whoever came in.

But upon meeting new people at our house or having guests he is super annoying because he has learned that new and/or other people equal treats. He is really pretty comfortable with people who come to visit regularly now and will give and recieve affection and instigate some mild play,

But if they stand up too quickly or make a loud sudden noise he will back off and talk a little until he realizes it is ok and then he will relax right away.

If we have workmen or someone he isnt relaxing well around I distract him with simple clicker games and this seems to work and he will then mellow out, I tried tug and fetch as distractions but fetch is iffy at best and tug seemed to only increase anxiety and level of Amped-ness (not a word I know )

When we stop and talk to the moms after school that he knows he is very vocal and while not barking he will roowoo and grumble woo and nudge their hand and stomp and prance if they dont have a treat or 5 for him.

I have not really corrected any of this at all because he is making contact with outside people and really its such a huge improvement.

Generally we just ignore it and allow it to self exstinguish but if its too annoying or with someone I know wont ignore it I redirect to a kong or do simple sits and downs or other tricks..he sees this as a game and will bring me the clicker to "play"

Should i be more proactive about it or will this die out some as he gets more and more comfortable with other people?

Total strangers, or certain people he just isnt comfortable with are still a bit of a challenge but it is getting better.

Generally if they ignore him he does the same. But if someone he doesnt know bends towards him or even looks right at him and speaks he will stand behind my legs. There is no cowering or barking or hackling, he just puts me between him and them, I dont acknowledge this at all to him but I do allow him to be where he feels safe.

I tell people he is shy and was neglected but they can let him sniff their hand. He will generally do this if only to look for a treat and this usually appeases the stranger and doesnt stress him out too much.

The only other issue is that he jumps up on me a lot, (only me he is very much attached and bonded with me as we spend 90% of our time together) He likes to give me ear and chin nibbles or put his teeth in my hair and do the flea nibble thing, he also is awful about putting his paws on tables or counters, we work on this daily without a whole lot of progress.

I did discover yesterday that giving him a quick sharp burst of breath in the face strongly discourages the jumping. After doing it everytime for a full day I only have to puff my cheeks and sits back down and gives me the exasperated FINE WHATEVER! look. So I am hopeful he will chill out with the trying to get to my face all the time.

I'm a speed reader, and I still wandered halfway through this.

About the acting out to get attention from acquaintances -- I'd ask them in advance (since they are people you know) *not* to acknowledge him. He is being rewarded for that, by attention from them and from you. I'd mark and reward for the desired (quiet sitting) behavior, but nothing for the antics. Ignore him. Ask others to ignore him. Period.

P.S. Maybe if you reply to me with "And what about the ---- ?" you will get more response. I think that many very experienced people hop on here for a few minutes, answer a couple of quick questions, and then go back to work (or whatever).... skipping very long posts that have no obvious final summing-up or opening list.

NOT AT ALL meant to sound mean ... just explaining why hours have elapsed with no answers.

I got a bit confused is he too shy or too outgoing? The first part you said he was annoying because he thought visitors = treats. (stop letting them give hi treats and keep him teathered to you).
The second part says he is shy and hides behind you. This would indicate more socialization is needed. Get him out and about more. If he steps behind you then I would step aside.

Quincy is the same age and was super shy but my other dog is a boxer. I took them both tons of places. I never pushed Quincy but curiosity got the better of him The boxer loves everyone so Quincy started to investigate.

Quincy is still more aloof but that is how I want him to be since he is a german shepherd. I do not let anyone give him treats.

The jumping on you sounds like a lack of respect. I love the dvd Establishing Pack Structure sold at Leerburg.

He was neglected as a baby pup and given little to no interaction, he was filthy malnourished and had more parasites and bacteria in his gut than than the vet had seen in a long time. I dont think the man was hitting them or hurting them but I doubt he was gentle and sweet either.

For whatever reason he took to us at first sight and was instantly bonded, he is totally comfortable with us and we can touch him or manipulate any part of his body, he loves having his tummy scratched and actually loves it when I spin him a bit on the floor by his feet. I did it once very slowly to see what he would do and he responded by running over to me and flopping down and offering me his front feet.
Silly dog

His issues with other people went well beyond shy though, it was pretty extreme and I saw just how much when we had to stay at my folks for several weeks soon after we got him.

He was extemely fearful of them and it took well over a week of her ignoring him while offering treats for him to take one and then run off.

By the end of it he would greet her in the morning by shyly walking up to her and giving her foot a little snuffle and a tail wag before darting off again.

So once we were back home and in our routine I started socializing heavily.

He is starting to accept other people and this was accomplished with liberal treat giving from the hands of everyone he encountered and purposeful set up visits with people at our house.

We didnt ask for any behavior from him in order to get the treats other than a willingness to approach the other person. He has made tons and tons of progress, he can calmly watch a jogger go past us, and deal with groups of people as long as he doesnt feel overwhelmed or cornered he will calmly observe. When approached by anyone too forward he still puts himself behind me but does not hackle or growl anymore.


So while the treats have been working and he has come a really long way, the bi-product is that he has been trained to expect treats from visitors or new people. With people he sees regularly he still doesnt really want them to touch him and still gets scared if they stand up or move towards him he recovers much more quickly. And annoyingly isnt shy about demanding the treats he has been trained to expect.

Is a double edged sword!

hmmm-this is just me, but with my dogs-and guests that come over-if they are close friends, and other dog people-I fully expect them to correct my dogs if they start acting like brats.

I teach my dogs to not jump on people, sure, but when my back is turned-and they try it with a friend-i expect that friend to scruff and flatten that dog and tell him off.

I don't allow all my friends to do this-just those that I know can. If there is any doubt, i just keep the dogs kenneled while i have company over.

Maybe he views your close company as other-extended-pack members-but not higher pack members-so he shows off and acts up. If they start being more aloof towards him-and maybe(you know how your dog would take this)if they even told him to knock it off, etc, he would stop showing off for your friends.

or start crating him when they come over for a few weeks-only let him stay out if he stays calm.

 Quote: mallory kwiatkowski

I teach my dogs to not jump on people, sure, but when my back is turned-and they try it with a friend-i expect that friend to scruff and flatten that dog and tell him off.

I hope that you mean another pack leader..... a person who lives in your house.... and phrased it poorly.

But if you mean a visitor, then I have to say that my ideas about that are 100% negative. Couldn't be more negative. I'd have to say that I can't really think of anything that would make me allow outsiders (people not in my pack) to "flatten" or scruff my dogs. I train my dogs, I decide on what corrections they get, and I am their protector.

But I may have misunderstood. I hope I did.

 Quote: Mallory Kwiatkowski

hmmm-this is just me, but with my dogs-and guests that come over-if they are close friends, and other dog people-I fully expect them to correct my dogs if they start acting like brats.

I teach my dogs to not jump on people, sure, but when my back is turned-and they try it with a friend-i expect that friend to scruff and flatten that dog and tell him off.

I don't allow all my friends to do this-just those that I know can. If there is any doubt, i just keep the dogs kenneled while i have company over.

WOW, I cannot believe that I am reading this. Are you kidding me?

I don't like my dogs to jump on people either, so I either put my dogs away, or keep them under my control.

I would NEVER, EVER expect or ALLOW anyone outside my family to correct my dogs in any way.

(especially with the "scruff and flatten" method )

In my opinion, the perfect behavior for a dog is to be neutral to people when I invite them in to my home. This doesn't happen by being sorry for the dog's previous living conditions and allowing him to get away with rude behavior because (again) you are feeling sorry for how he was treated as a baby.

Give this dog structure and leadership, teach him what is allowed, be firm but fair. Set yourself up for success, don't expect the puppy or your visitors to make the right choices for getting the behavior you want.

Keep the pup on a leash or in a crate, reward good behavior, and control the environment to minimize mistakes right now. At his age there is really no reason for him to be given enough freedom to make some of the mistakes you have listed. Supervision is the key.

I would quit telling people he was "shy and neglected" and having them offer their hand. Tell EVERYONE to ignore him. This dog does not need people giving him direct eye contact and getting into his space. You even post that when people ignore him, he does well.....

He doesnt jump on visitors I cant imagine him ever being that bold with anyone other than us, he also doesnt jump on my husband or son.

Only with me and it is during love or playtime, I dont allow it but have had a hard time stopping it from happening. The quick breath in the face is working though and better than putting a prong on him at this age. I have tried everything else.

We do pack structure, with us at home he is treated no differently than any other dog, I go through doors first, he works for everything, no getting on the bed or couch.
He is always wearing a leash of some sort, he drags a 6 foot line in the house and on walks is on a 4 foot lead.

The other two dogs get very excited when someone first comes over so they are put away until their brains start functioning again, or the person leaves depending on who it is.

I never expect nor would I tolerate a visitor or guest to correct my dogs with anything other than "no" or "go on" But I dont put other people in the position to need to do this, my dogs aren't their problem. Nico and Loki once let out will lay calmly on the floor and will only go over to someone if called.

If someone other than me or my husband corrected the pup it would be a disaster!
If they even spoke in an angry or overly firm voice while making eye contact it would undo a whole lot of work.

With this pup I was having them ignore him, and simply put a treat in their hand and let him take it. after weeks of doing this every chance I got he made big improvements and continues to approve all the time.

The people we have coming over regularly knew the situation with him and are are taking part in helping us train him.

If he is going somewhere with me where I know there will be a group of people I just announce on arrival that they should ignore him because he is not sure of people.

The goal with the treat giving and exposure to people is for him to learn that people equal good things.
That there is no reason to panic and hackle and cower and run off to hide when someone is in the room or a block up the street.


When he gets obnoxious I generally give it a minute to see if he will stop if doesnt get him what he wants.

If he doesnt shut his yap pretty quickly I call him back to me and put him in a sit or a down and refocus his attention away from the lack of treats being given.

Should I be actively correcting this barking and tantrum throwing rather than ingoring/redirecting at this point?

With people he has come to know he is approaching them and making a fuss because the expected treats arent coming anymore.

IMO It is the equivalent of a temper tantrum in a toddler.

He does not get rewarded for this, if he is barking or being obnoxious he is ignored or redirected.

Should I be actively correcting this barking and tantrum throwing rather than ingoring/redirecting at this point?


When we are out and about people often see the cute puppy and want to pet him and they have bad manners so approach without asking. This has eased off some since he is bigger and less cutesy wootsy fluffy puppy.
I stop strangers before they can get too close and totally in his space.

If we are out walking and stop to talk to someone and they ask if they can pet him I explain that he isnt too sure of people but if you offer your hand he will probably sniff it. This is enough to make most people content and not put off by the unfriendly dog. It also puts him at ease if he can sniff and retreat with no further pressure.

Most of the time he will sniff their hand and then relax and sit next to me, other times he isnt comfortable and will stand behind me legs. Thats fine too.

I dont coddle or encourage or react at all, I just act cheerfully calm and try to send him no big deal vibes down the leash.
I never force him to be touched or approached.

I am going to order one of the in training please do not pet vests from leerburg now that he is bigger.

I would add to this that no touch, no eye contact, no nothing* would be what I want from strangers, and that I would ignore his antics for attention and treats with people he does know.

That hand thing.... I know that many many people will totally disagree with me, but I don't think it's a great move with a shy dog. For one thing, it focuses eyes and attention on him.... it's pressure or expectation that he react, rather than just allowing the dog to become interested (or not) in his own time. IOW, leave him alone. No hands, no attention, no treats-from-strangers. JMO. Let him gain confidence from a position of no-coercion.

Getting rid of the jumping up on *you* is easiest. I might turn my back, or step into his space, or walk away with a noise like "phooey" and zero attention. But if your quick breath in his face works, then why not?

What Cindy says about not telling people he has had a bad past can be taken even further; I would try to stop saying it to myself as well. That was then and this is now, and the need of a stable pack structure and unwavering leadership trumps any kind of sympathy or extra attention or coddling.

I'm very affectionate with my dogs. I'm not saying that affection is inappropriate!



*I can't quite recall it, but Cesar Millan has a phrase for this.