Hi! I'm new to this board. I've been reading the biting/nipping problems people are having with their puppies, but I have concerns about my dog since she is out of the 8wk-8mos puppy age range that seems to be more heavily discussed. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have an 8 1/2 month old Golden Retriever/Cocka-poo mix. She is a very friendly, playful, people-loving dog. But she still has a very HARD bite. She's always been mouthy, and the usual methods of teaching her a soft bite (i.e. the high-pitch yelp, redirecting with a toy or bone) have not done a thing. In fact, she seems to want to chomp down harder the higher you yelp! It usually occurs when she is in a playful mood, but if you try to end the play because it hurts or you are not in the mood, she starts to go at you barking, snarling, growling, lunging, and jumping in a frenzy to try and get her teeth on any part of you that will stand still. She has all her adult teeth, but still breaks skin and leaves regular bruises on myself and my kids. I have been told that she does this because she is somehow being rewarded with attention for this behavior, but I don't know how much I believe this. We're not sure what the next step in getting this to end should be, or if it is still "puppy play" that will eventually be phased out on it's own.

I do not think this is a "pack" issue...she does not resource guard, will sit and wait to be given permission to eat, sits before being allowed through doors, and highly coveted toys and bones can be handled and removed while she is using them with no trouble. She does not have free reign of the house, and is crated while we are out and at night while we sleep.

I also do not think this is an obedience issue, as we have gone through puppy kindergarten and basic dog obedience classes, which has taught sit, stay, down (not so much heel...she is a puller and walks much better with the EZ Walk harness than a flat collar).

Please help!

It is definately a pack issue. She would not maul you if she respected you as pack leader.

My boxer was a challenge with this because she was taken from her littermates too early and did not learn bite inhibition. My method was to crate when I thought she was getting too excited. Like your girl, Ava did not know how to gear down or accept the fact the game was over. After five miniutes in the crate she was out like a light. She just didn't know how to settle herself.

For a long time I never played rough with her and the miniute she started to get too excited I gave her a break in her crate.

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but I have concerns about my dog since she is out of the 8wk-8mos puppy age range

Dogs aren't robots, and they don't know their own age. They don't wake up and say "hey i'm 8 months old now.... i'll change the way I interact with everyone" Some dogs mature quicker than others. I generally see a change around 10-11 months old, but every dog is different. My pups are only just now starting to show any signs of maturity and they are coming up on 16 months old.

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the usual methods of teaching her a soft bite (i.e. the high-pitch yelp, redirecting with a toy or bone) have not done a thing.

Yanno, this high pitched yelp stuff always makes me chuckle. Maybe it works with some dogs, but any dog that has enough character to be "barking, snarling, growling, lunging, and jumping in a frenzy to try and get her teeth on any part of you that will stand still," is not going to respond to yelping.

Redirection, however, is good. But redirection is an art -- most people reward the dog, rather than redirecting the dog. I wouldn't give the dog a bone either, give them something they can tug on and use as an outlet for their pent up drive.

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I also do not think this is an obedience issue, as we have gone through puppy kindergarten and basic dog obedience classes, which has taught sit, stay, down (not so much heel...she is a puller and walks much better with the EZ Walk harness than a flat collar).

I would go to a gas station and fill up a small container with gas, put the gentle leader (which I assume is what you mean with EZ Walk Harness) in a metal can, douse it with gas and burn it. Then teach your dog to heel properly

The puppy classes and stuff like that are not very intensive classes, and they shouldn't be, because the dog is young at the age you bring them to those classes. I would read all the articles on obedience training that are available on Leerburg and follow those. Of course, your dog is still young, so don't expect too much from him at 8.5 months old. The dog is very much still a puppy, they just get big pretty fast.

OK, the biting issue. Redirect the biting. Learn the dogs body language and predict when he is going to start behaving that way, and redirect before it happens. If the dog interprets your redirection as a reward then the dog will keep acting that way in hopes of getting rewarded for it.

With the frenzy behavior, you need to be extremely consistent here. I would handle it in 2 different ways.

Firstly, you need to be consistent. If you are in a situation where you are unable to focus all your attention on the dog, then the dog should be crated. If the dog "sometimes" gets to do these things and "sometimes" not, then the dog won't understand what you want. If the dog starts to get into a frenzy, then crate him immediately each and every time.

The alternative, and probably more along the lines of what I would choose to do personally, depending on the amount of time I have available when the dog starts going nuts, is channeling this behavior into something productive, like obedience.

A lot of people see obedience as a way to control the dog. This simply isn't true. Obedience is being able to work with your dog and enjoy an experience you share with them. When I say channeling it into obedience, I don't mean "tell the dog to lie down so they aren't annoying." Instead, grab some pieces of hotdog, cheese, kibble, whatever it is you use to reward your dog, and use the dogs behavior to your advantage. All that barking and going wild in a frenzy is the dogs pent up drive coming out. If you channel this pent up drive into another drive, such as food drive, you can then have fun with the dog by working with them. Practice his sits and downs, teach him a new trick. Teach him to shake paw, crawl on the ground, sit up etc. If the dog is channeling his drive into thinking about these things, then he isn't biting you or going into a frenzy, and you are then also doing something fun with the dog which also changes your perception from: "this dog goes crazy and drives us nuts," to, "it's really fun working with a driven dog that loves to learn new things."

I personally love dogs that go absolutely wild, because they are the most up-beat, happiest, driven dogs. That is exactly the type of drive and enthusiasm you want from a dog in order to teach them new things.

Also remember that there is a puppy witching hour right around 8pm, where dogs for some reason like to charge around the house like maniacs before going to bed.

Exercise the dog more too, although don't overdo it on hard surfaces as the dog is still young. But a tired dog is a happy dog that is less likely to go into a frenzy in the first place.

Good luck, enjoy your dog!

*ot* Gentle leader and EZ Pull harness thing are not the same thing although manufactured by the same company. While I agree with Mike on the burning of the gentle leader with the exception of using perfectly good $4.50 a gallon gas on it I've actually found a good use for the easy pull harness thing with one of my pups who wasn't responding well to the collar and lead during his fear stage although we went back to a normal flat collar and leash later.

Leerburg also sells something similar. /end OT
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You mention this happens alot with play. If I have a dog who plays inappropriately I stop, give a quick verbal or touch correction and then reengage the activity on my rules.

Could you show me what an EZ pull harness looks like? It still sounds like something I would burn. Although, perhaps in 1/8 gallon of gas.... ofcourse, $4.50/gallon is still cheap to me

The EZ walk harness looks exactly like a traditional harness, but the leash attaches to a ring on the front end at the dog's breastbone...not back, the theory being that attaching the leash to the back makes the dog want to pull in the opposite direction, like the reflex that makes sled dogs pull ahead. It has nothing to do with any bands or muzzle-type peices that wrap around the snout. When the dog pulls, you simply give a small nudge to the side and they get back to heel immediatley.

Interesting. But, alas, there is no substitute for training the dog to heel vs. relying on harnesses and gimmicks.

I also find it amusing when people rely entirely on prong collars to stop a dog from pulling. Does it work? You betcha. But what happens when the dog is back on a flat collar? The dog didn't really learn a thing, you simply made him avoid a behavior. Along with any tool there should be training. If that training doesn't carry over when the dog doesn't have any collar on, then it wasn't training.

Based on the problem I am having with the hard bite is there a particular video you can recommend to illustrate the proper way to redirect. I do feel that many times the redirect tends to look like a reward when done with food or a bone so I have stopped doing that. Also when the dog "steals" objects or has something in her mouth that she does not want to give up, I was told to trade it with food, again it seems like rewarding the stealing behavior.

I do admit that the daily training that we used to do has fallen a bit to the wayside (it's hard with 2 small kids), but I never thought to redirect the biting frenzy with a training session. Also, which video is recommended for this age dog for obedience?

Thanks!

Rory, do you keep a leash/drag line on your pup when in the house?

It's much easier to control a pup with a leash attached than by trying to grab her collar or push her away. In fact, it's likely that the more you push her the more wound up she'll get.

When she starts to get too mouthy, take hold of her leash and calmly redirect her off your arm or pant leg or whatever. I find that in these circumstances if I move right into a quick training session my pup will calm down pretty well.

With my pup, mouthiness is directly related to exercise. If she's mouthy in the house, it generally means that she needs to burn off some energy.

Also, with my pup, the mouthiness got significantly better between 8 months and 12 months(that's how old she is now)

As far as DVD's. you can't go wrong with Pack Structure for the Family Pet.

Here's a link to Ed's free marker training e-book. If you don't know about marker training (clicker training) read up!

http://leerburg.com/pdf/markers.pdf

Connie Sutherland is usually pretty good at suggesting DVD's. My knowledge on Leerburg DVD's is limited to the 3 or 4 that I own. Hopefully someone else will chime in on recommendations here, or you can email Leerburg directly, I'm sure they will be glad to recommend some.