"William's Issues"
#200885 - 07/07/2008 11:47 AM |
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I have a Boxer/Lab mix 10 months old,I got him from animal shelter in December 2007. He has become agressive with me over the past several months and I need advise. Here is his story.
About 4 months ago he started to get angry when I would put him in his crate. I don't understand being he has been in a crate since I have had him. He will go into the crate on his own, and when I close the door he turns around and snarles showing teeth and gets very mean.
I decided to let him stay out of the crate and he seemed very happy and was being very good.
One evening about 6 weeks ago I was on the couch eating ice cream and he was laying next to me. All I did was pet his head and he jumped up growling baring teeth and when I went to get up he bit my hand about 6 times. He did not break skin but brused me and made me afraid of him.
He was fine all week and very sweet. I had a male friend over and William jumped onto his lap and was licking him, then he buried his head in the couch cushins while my friend was petting him, he started to growl and then jumped up and bit him on his hand this time breaking the skin, left 6 puncture teeth marks.
(I later found a bone under the couch)
I consulted Kacie Hackett a dog trainer for help.
I took away all his privliges, Keep him on a leed at all times and started using the crate again. He was doing good, I bought him a nylabone and it was the wrong kind(soft) he started to ingest it so I needed to get it away from him. We used a treat to distract him and a friend put the bone in his crate instead of the trash.
I got up and went to walk past the crate to go to the kitchen and he jumped at me and bit my wrist, again did not break skin.
I was able to get him back into the crate and threw out the bone, but it was very scarry.
I am still using the crate when I am not home but every time I put him into it he gets very agressive. He will also keep growling at me, even after I go into the other room for awhile.
I thought dogs only live in the minuet, mine dosen't. I have stopped allowing him on the furniture and have been following the pack structure rules. He was doing so well for about two weeks, and then he slipped back to getting mean again. He is like Jekel and Hide.
It seems that he is only like this when in the apartment. I have no problem with him outside. He walks on the leed right next to me and will listen. I use a prong collar with a dominant collar as a back up.
He does not come when called, but will sit, lay down, roll over and stay only if there is a treat involved.
I really need help, I love William and don't want to give him up. If I can't control him I will have to, I am afraid he will hurt someone or me. Please help.
William and Luke |
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Re: "William's Issues"
[Re: Karen Flynn ]
#200888 - 07/07/2008 12:22 PM |
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Karen, until someone w/ more experience than I have gives you some advice, here's some relevent reading to get you pointed in the right direction. You can print out for your convenience:
http://www.leerburg.com/pdf/packstructure.pdf (Establishing Pack Structure)
http://leerburg.com/pdf/dealingwithdominantdog.pdf (Dominant Dogs)
Also, if you haven't done this already, start attaching a lead to your dog's collar inside the house. It's much easier to control a dog with a leash on. If the dog senses that you are afraid of him, this will encourage his dominant behavior.
Some simple things you can do:
Stop letting the dog on the furniture.
Make him work for his supper. (sit, and stay in a sit until you tell him 'OK' )
Have him sit before you go out for a walk, and again before you come back in.
Regarding the crate, how are you getting him in there? Are you forcing him in by pushing, etc?
Are you still consulting w/ Kacie Hackett?
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Re: "William's Issues"
[Re: Lynne Barrows ]
#200890 - 07/07/2008 12:40 PM |
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First, you need to buy a muzzle for that dog, and make him wear it, 24/7. There are muzzles that will allow the dog to eat and drink while wearing it. He has bitten at least three times- and each time he will get bolder. If nothing changes, it's only a matter of time before this dog seriously maims someone.
He needs to be in his crate as much as possible. He needs to learn that YOU control his life. When he goes in, when he goes out, when he eats, when he uses the bathroom. Every aspect.
I would feed him in his crate. I would only be taking him out to use the bathroom, exercise the shit out of him in the yard, and then right back to the crate, for now. You need to establish your position as Pack Leader.
You said he becomes aggressive when you try to crate him, and so you've backed off putting him in the crate. You reinforced the idea that being aggressive is lucrative for him. I suspect you've already realized that; now, it's time to reverse that behavior, by sticking his butt in the crate no matter how much he fights it- WITH a muzzle on. Ideally, he should go in on command, perhaps lured in with a treat.
This dog has ZERO respect for you. He may love you (and I can clearly see you love him), but he doesn't respect you as his pack leader. He has hit doggy puberty, and he's deciding that you aren't doing a good job of being pack leader, so he's going to do it for you.
What has the trainer you are consulting with, suggested?
I see from your post you have a dominant dog collar.
That's good, because there will come a point, where it will come into play.
For now, I'd just start with muzzling the dog, and crating it as much as possible. I'd have another strong person help you when you put the muzzle on, as he may fight going into it.
Since his recall is poor, I would keep him on a long drag line outdoors, and a short leash indoors, any time he isn't crated (which should only be outside for potty breaks, right now).
You came to the right place. If there is any hope for this dog, this is the place to find it.
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Re: "William's Issues"
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#200892 - 07/07/2008 12:57 PM |
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You've received some good advice. I would also invest in an e collar, as well. ANY time he shows aggression to you, he needs correction. I used the e collar on myself before I tried it on the dog. It's very uncomfortable, but not what I would call painful. At any rate, you need to cause that dog some SERIOUS discomfort if he is biting you - he is challenging your status as pack leader.
In my opinion, you need to kick William off the couch. Couch is for people. You are letting him get too close to being "equal" to you in the pack - which may be part of why he is getting dominant with you.
If William is as food/toy protective as it seems, I would feed him and let him have bones ONLY in the crate. Allowing him to have them elsewhere in the house gives him opportunity to hide the bones and then protect them.
He's young - there's still time to "fix" past training mistakes. Good luck!
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Re: "William's Issues"
[Re: Betty Burley ]
#200893 - 07/07/2008 01:16 PM |
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I would strongly advise AGAINST using an E-collar for aggression issues. There is a high probability that the stimulation will increase, NOT decrease the aggression.
E-collars and Prong collars are best used for different reasons. With an agressive dog, they tend to "put more fight into the dog", not take it out of him. The dominant dog collar is designed to take the fight out of him.
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Re: "William's Issues"
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#200895 - 07/07/2008 01:31 PM |
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I can attest to that, as far as the prong collar goes. I have also heard that an e-collar does the same (amps him up, and makes them madder).
Alyssa has great advice, she basically put the most important points of Ed's dominant dog program into a nutshell.
You can also buy Ed's Dealing with Dominant and Aggressive Dogs DVD and Pack Structure for pet owners. (Look under the DVD section).
This dog should NEVER BE OFF LEASH, EVER. Not for a long time. He is a dangerous dog and will become a liability. For his own and other people's safety... Crate, muzzle, leash or long line. I feel your pain in a way, I have a dog who fortunately isn't people aggressive but he is dog aggressive (or at least, reactive) and I always have to think of other people's and their pet's safety and put them first, before my dog's freedom.
Also, do some motivational obedience training with him. It will help exercise his brain as well as give him something to focus on other than guarding his bones. When he has got through the learning phase and into the correction phase, teaching him that when he gets a command YOU ARE NOT KIDDING, will also help enforce your pack leader status (which you have established though Ed's groundwork program).
Good luck and keep us updated.
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Re: "William's Issues"
[Re: Angela Burrell ]
#200909 - 07/07/2008 02:55 PM |
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Angela and Alyssa, thanks for correcting me! I will need to go back and review some of the info on dominant and aggressive dogs. I don't want to make mistakes that are doing to get my girl off track because she's doing great.
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Re: "William's Issues"
[Re: Betty Burley ]
#201016 - 07/08/2008 12:57 PM |
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i am the one trying to help Karen out with William's issues...
we are still trying to work out a time for me to come to her house and actually observe William's behavior, but from what Karen has described to me (in detail) it definitely sounds as though William has taken charge and has been "disciplining" his owners for crossing his boundaries. (one of the things i've been told about is William rolling over onto his back for belly rubs, and then a few moments into it he will growl and then eventually snap, which to me sounds as though the owners are missing the subtle "i've had enough" cues and then he resorts to "chewing them out" ... i've already talked to Karen about how to handle solicited petting/affection)
the first step taken was to direct her to Leerburg's Pack Structure ebooks. From there i went over the most important steps... crating and leash tethering indoors and outdoors, keep off the furniture, and how to feed in the crate. I also went over how to use the dominant collar with her, which i believe she has applied once so far.
The first few days i thought she may be in the clear, as she sent me an email to tell me he had been doing great with the Pack Structure program... and then, later ... not so great...
***When she told me he had started becoming more angry in the crate (this was the very first issue i heard about BTW) after it seemed he had started to settle down with the new rules, i was at a loss. In my training, the crate is the most important tool, and William certainly needs to be crated! But now i'm not sure how to address this type of kennel aggression (he goes into the crate, but then turns and comes at Karen), without setting her up to get hurt because he's ticked about the kennel! I have worked with aggressive and dominant dogs before, but the kennel has never been a source of aggression before***
at this point i insisted that Karen come to the forum to get some ideas on this.
i've avoided telling her to give a correction for the kennel aggression as i am worried that may aggravate the situation ... i wanted to see what some of you guys thought first!
Synchronized Chomping |
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Re: "William's Issues"
[Re: Kacie Maffitt ]
#201020 - 07/08/2008 01:18 PM |
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I've seen some very dominant Military Working Dogs, become very aggressive about their hindquarters. It wasn't a pain issue- the dogs were in fantastic shape, good hips, etc. It was just a dominance thing. To the extent that they'd take a chunk (not nip) out of anyone they didn't respect, who touched their back, tail, hind legs, etc.
Obviously I'm at the same disadvantage that you are Kacie, RE: not being able to see the behavior in person... but is it possible this dog is becoming similarly aggressive about his hindquarters?
In otherwords, he's fine going into his kennel, but when Karen comes behind him to shut the door, he's turning and saying, "HEY, get the hell away from my butt!"
Personally, if it was me... I'd take this behavior as an opportunity. I'd have a dominant dog collar, a muzzle, and a leash on the dog the next time I put him in his crate. The next time he turned and snarled at me- he'd think he just entered the 9th gate of hell.
BUT, that's ME, with MY level of comfort and experience. Everyone has their comfort level, and unless you're prepared to fight and win- don't go there.
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Re: "William's Issues"
[Re: Kacie Maffitt ]
#201021 - 07/08/2008 01:27 PM |
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But now i'm not sure how to address this type of kennel aggression (he goes into the crate, but then turns and comes at Karen), without setting her up to get hurt because he's ticked about the kennel!
This dog shouldn't be doing anything without a muzzle on.
Karen is clearly intimidated (I can see why), and a muzzle is the only thing that will give her the ability to correct the dog confidently.
If I were Karen, I'd order the sturdiest muzzle Leerburg sells, TODAY. And in the meantime, I'd find any muzzle I could find at the local petstore and impliment it in the interim.
One correction with the dominant dog collar is worthless, unless A) it is applied CORRECTLY the first time and B) you are willing to keep doing it every single time the dog acts up.
Otherwise, ONE correction with a DD Collar, and no follow up, just emboldened the dog. He learned that he can win the fight.
A correction for aggression with a DD collar should make the dog think he is about to die. Literally.
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