Hey folks,
I'm new here (I'll be posting in the bio section soon) and I've greatly enjoyed lurking around and reading all of the great info on training and the opinions of various breeds that I've found here. This is the first "working" oriented dog forum that I've found online and it's been very interesting to see this perspective on dogs and training.

All of that said, I wanted to post here and see which breed/s (and which lines, show or working) you think would suit me and my situation the best. I will be getting a dog within the next 2-3 years, so I'm in the early stages of my research, but I'm having trouble picking just one breed and I want to make sure that I will get a dog that will fit my lifestyle and needs.

First, a little about me and my background...

I live in the south east, in Alabama, it is HOT here in the summer and only gets below freezing maybe 2 weeks total in the winter.
I am single and work as a full-time teacher (art-MS/HS), so I have the summers off, but have to work all day during the week.
I go for a long walk each day (~45 min - 1 hr).
I do not travel much and could be considered a "home body".
In my area (I live in the boonies) there is only 1 reputable trainer that I know of (plus 2 associated with the big-box pet stores). There are no sport or working clubs or even obedience or agility clubs. The closest breeders of any breed that I've found are 2-3 hours away.
My main dog experience so far has been with my family's boxer/chow/lab (100lbs of stubborn, high energy dog). I have trained him in all of the basic obedience commands..sit, down, stay, come, drop it, take, heel, etc. However, I have never gone to a formal OB class with him.
Although I am not the most dominant/forceful person around, I will stick to my guns and I am by no means a "bleeding heart" (hence teaching middle school, lol).
I will be waiting to get the dog until I own a home with a fenced in back yard... BTW, I have 3 cats and a couple of FW community tanks.

Now that you know a little about me and my background, here are my expectations for the dog and what, in general, the daily routine and "job" of the dog would be.

I want a dog that will be calm in the house given 1-2 45 min to 1 hour walks a day, plus play and training time and time to burn off energy in the fenced back yard. Although I can committ to increasing activity on the weekends and when I'm off, with my schedule, it would be very hard to do more physical work with the dog during the week than listed above.

I would like a medium sized breed, between 40 - 100lbs, that has a short coat (the less shedding the better) and little "doggy odor". I am willing to committ to as much grooming as necessary.
I am also willing to go up on my size limit if the breed fits my other needs.

The dog will be expected to live inside and get along with my cats (with proper training). I will be crate-training as a puppy, but would prefer it if the dog could adjust to either confinement in a room or having the whole house (with a safe room for the cats) while I'm at work, as an adult.

I work full time, and as such, the dog will have to be left at home while I am teaching. I do not get a lunch break in the middle of the day (I am contemplating a dog door for the dog's bathroom needs but am wary of leaving a dog unattended with access to the backyard). I am willing to get an adult or resuce dog if needed, due to this, but if I get a puppy, I would do so when I was off for 2 months in the summer, to aid in house training.

The main purpose behind me getting a dog is that I would like a companion animal that will accompany me on walks, to the pet store, etc. I may also do some formal obedience with the dog, but will probably not compete (as I live in the boonies and would have to drive 3+ hours to get to a competition). Although I am very interested in dog sports, there are no trainers or clubs in my area, so I will not pursue any formal bite work or sport training.

Because I am single and my city isn't the safest place around, I am looking for a dog that has good defensive/territorial instincts and won't welcome a burgler with open arms or go with a stranger willingly. Stability of temperment is a necessity...I don't want a nervous or shy dog nor one that is "unpredictable" from day to day.

I would like a relatively easy-to-live-with breed (I know this varies greatly from dog to dog). I have dealt with some dominance issues (growling, snapping,etc.) with my family's dog, but I would consider him of medium dominance, once I used proper behaviorial and training techniques and he "learned his place" as an adult, he does not challenge me constantly (this is with continued obedience work). I feel confident that I could handle a more dominant dog (especially if I raised him from puppyhood) but, I don't necessarily want a breed that is known for constantly challenging their owner/handler and/or known for handler agression. I deal with enough willfulness with my 7th grade boys at school so I'd rather not have a dog that constantly pushed the limits at home, if that makes sense.

A breed that generally has a high "willingnes to please" would also be great, as I would like to do most of the training with PR and use physical force only as correction, when necessary.

With all of these things taken into account, I want a dog that will be able to do well with the time and effort that I can put in and would not be miserable if not in a working situation.

Some breeds that I have considered and others have reccommended to me (my short list) are the following:

Doberman
Boxer
Giant Schnauzer
Rhodesian Ridgeback
Greyhound (sounds perfect expect for their mostly total lack of territorial sense and friendliness to strangers)

I also like the rottweiler, cane corso, and dogue do bordeaux, but I believe these would probably be "too much dog" for me.

Please feel free to comment on these breeds as well as list any that might possibly work better than these.

As to lines... I have heard many people say that dogs from working lines have more stable temperments and better nerves...I have seen many "show lines" (or byb) dogs that were very off temperment for their breed and either nervous or shy, so that would seem to back that up. This would make getting a pet quality pup from working lines ideal. BUT, would a working line dog have waaaay more energy and drive and not be able to cope with my living / work situation? I must admit that I am quite confused in this area.

I know this has been a long post and I apologize for my long-windedness and all of the questions.

I would greatly appreciate any help and information you can give me.

Thanks!
Bethany

Hi Bethany,

Welcome to the forum.

First i'd like to state the obvious, and re-affirm your own thoughts.

Yes, if you get a puppy, get the puppy during your summer vacation.
and
Yes, working line dogs will offer you a more stable temperament and better health, IF you go to the correct breeder. There are always going to be breeders breeding less than stellar dogs regardless of the bloodlines, and the general goal for working lines is WORKING ABILITY, which means higher drives and energy levels. But every breeder throws pet quality dogs and lower drive dogs (once in a while) that could make nice pets. But they will likely still be active dogs and need an outlet for the energy.

As for trainers, I'm sure you've looked long and hard, but sometimes there are some great trainers hidden right under your nose, we just don't always know where to look. I would get on the working dog forums and ask around about trainers in your area, you might get lucky, there might be a guy that doesn't formally train other peoples dogs but would welcome the opportunity to have someone else in the local area to work with and swap ideas and advice.

I like the Giant Schnauzers i've worked with. I don't have much experience with them other than as a decoy and spending some time letting them out and watching them "dance" while pooping, but they seem like nice dogs that could calm down around the house.

Dobies are another option, but you need to spend a lot of time finding the right breeder. Good Dobie breeders are few and far between, and they tend to be high energy dogs.

Puppies like to bounce off the walls as it is, especially from more driven working lines, but once they grow up and you get over that first 18 month hurdle, they become easier. After 3 years old they start to settle more.

Cats can be a problem with any breed, especially as the drive levels increase. I don't have any experience raising dogs and cats, i'm not much of a cat person, but i'm sure the topic has been covered on this website many times.

There are lots of breed rescues out there, so if you want a specific breed of dog but would like to rescue, the option is certainly possible, and would be a very good way to have a better idea of the kind of dog you are getting than a puppy. A lazy puppy will turn into an even lazier adult. A rescue might be a way to skip over the hyper-puppy ages and jump straight into a dog that has already settled into being what you are looking for.

45-60 minute walk a day is plenty for most average dogs, as long as they also have freedom to walk around the house and run around the yard for a bit.

If raising a puppy, it'll be about 5-8 months of age where he should be able to make it through the day without you having to come home to clean up a mess. The big issue is that the less time you have to be consistent, obviously the longer it will take to house break them. 2 months isn't enough IMO for leaving them alone all day long under 12 months old. Puppies left alone in the house or in a room will "make their own fun" when they are bored, and being stuck in a crate isn't much fun either, and you'll be bathing the pup every night after he pees in the crate.

Hi Bethany,

Glad you found this forum. It's a great place!

I'd just like to second Mike S's comments about exploring breed rescue, once you settle on a breed or two. I know he mentioned it as an option, but I would push you a little more strongly in that direction<g>, given your work situation. There is no way I'd leave a 4 month old puppy home alone for the whole work day (assuming you get a pup at 8 weeks, and have two months with it before returning to work in the fall). Of course, there would be the option of getting a pet sitter to come by a couple of times a day (at least once), but given your rural-sounding situation, that might not be all that easy to arrange, not to mention the whole issue of finding someone you can really trust. You may not be able to find out about a dog's lines this way, but you are able to meet a young adult and get a good idea of the dog's energy and exercise needs from the rescue folks, and even how they react to felines.

The nice thing about breed rescue is that the folks who run them are very committed to their breeds, and tend to be knowledgeable, and are good at assessing the dog in question and making appropriate matches with new owners.

Just as there is a lot of variation within a breed across temperaments and other traits, I believe there is a fair amount of variation in drive levels in working lines. Still, most working lines tend to have a LOT more drive and energy to be used than I think the average person is prepared to handle. If you end up being decided about getting a puppy, I think it would be wise to meet a few young pups from working lines in the breed you decide on (or as many of the ones you're considering as you can arrange to meet).

It's great that you're allowing so much time to do the research and figure out what will work best for you. I'm sure the folks who are more knowledgeable about the breeds you mentioned will be along to share their experience and opinions with you.

leih merigian

Wow. How did German Shepherd not make that list???

I've owned Boxers, and I've owned German Shepherds.
While I loved my Boxers to death- they were worse shedders than my Shepherd. The hair may be shorter, but they also shed a LOT more of it, and it was just EVERYWHERE.

Short haired dogs shed just as bad, if not worse, than dogs with undercoats. If you brush a Shepherd regularly (mine gets brushed at LEAST every other day), they don't smell, and they don't shed- it all comes off in the brush.

I'm also allergic to dogs (funny, I know), and my Boxers always screwed with my allergies worse than my Shepherd.
Not to mention, the snoring, farting, wiping copious amounts of water and drool on my pants after a trip to the water bowl... (Actually, all of that stuff made them endearing).

Boxers tend to be very rambunctious, even into old age. My last Boxer, Brandy, was still pinging off the walls at 8.5 years old. In her entire life, she was "mellow" for the last two weeks, which was when we knew the cancer had truly taken her. Cancer, BTW, is extremely common in Boxers.

Shepherds tend to be more reserved than many breeds, when meeting new people, and therefore tend not to "welcome burglers and strangers" with open arms. It's not that they're shy or afraid, they just don't make friends as quickly with new people. They love their family. They're super eager to please dogs, and I have to say, even though I was a Boxer person for years, I'm a Shepherd person now.

I know, I know... I'm pushing Shepherds because I'm biased.


Whatever breed you decide on, the other posters are right.
An 8 week old puppy isn't going to work for you. That leaves you with two options:

Rescue an older dog. There are definitely perks to this, the biggest being that you are saving a dog from an unknown fate.
There are also downsides, the biggest being, why was the dog surrendered in the first place?

Option two. Purhase an older puppy or adult dog from a breeder. I purchased my current GSD at 14 weeks old, from the breeder. The breeder just happened to have three pups from the litter that weren't reserved (all the blacks were reserved before the litter was born, the dark and red sables weren't), and so they were a tad older before I came to look at them.
She didn't carry any baggage, and she was also closer to sleeping through the night without needing a potty break. After a week of having her, she was able to go 10 hours in her crate without accidents or crying to go out.

Many breeders will also sell their adult dogs. Sometimes these are dogs that are retiring from breeding- or dogs that the breeder reclaimed for multiple reasons. For example, my breeder has a contract that if you EVER have to find a home for the dog- you take it back to her. She helps find the new home, and if she has to, keeps the dog until that happens. She doesn't want her dogs ending up in a pound somewhere, or being sold to bad people because the old owners got desperate. Good contract. So, she has an adult dog or two for sale at times.

So, there are a few ways you could go about getting an older dog.

Thanks for your replies everyone!

I'll definately try to do a more in-depth search for trainers in my area before getting my dog/puppy. I haven't done a very intensive search yet, because I figured I'd better pick the breed and breeder or rescue first. Who knows, there may be a really good trainer in my area and I've just never had a reason to know about it until now.

I will definately be looking into breed rescue for any of the breeds I'm interested in... I believe that they do a good job (in general) of matching dogs to owners and most cat test, so that would be a plus for me.

The only negatives that I could think of (in going with rescue) is that I wouldn't know the health history of the dog's lines (i.e. dysplasia, etc.) nor the temperment...But as you said, you pretty much "get what you see" when looking at adult dogs. I was also not sure whether or not an adult of a working breed (especially the dobermans) would bond to a new owner... I would hate to get a rescued adult only to have them never really bond with me.

As to getting a puppy, I have some relatives that are in my town that could possibly come over and let the puppy out at lunch time... I suppose this will show my inexperience with dogs, but I thought that most reputable breeders let their puppies go at 12 weeks. Is that correct, or is letting them go home at 8 weeks more common? Regardless, the main reason that I was interested in a puppy vs. an adult is that I thought it would make training and bonding easier than with an adult, but if this is not the case, adopting an older puppy or adult would definately be easier for me.

As to the GSD and why I excluded them... My only reasons are that I had known of the severe health problems in the show lines (along with really weak temperments) and, of course, the undercoat... The only ones I've met in person have been quite "fluffy" (not truely long haired though) with tons of undercoat. My family's dog (boxer/lab/chow) has a flat semi-hard outercoat with a thick wooly undercoat, which I always thought would be similar to a GSD's coat.

It's more the doggy "smell" that bothers me, verses any shedding, so if GSDs are as stink-free as a dobe or boxer, I guess I could add them to my list.

I guess there would be a lot more options for me if I was looking for a working line GSD than with the other breeds... From what I've read, the lines are pretty set (i.e. you can tell that one line will tend to have more or less handler agression or be softer or harder, etc.)... In my case though, just looking for a "pet", would the lines play as large of a role as just picking the lower drive puppy in the litter?

It's all way too confusing for me at this point I was hoping you would help me narrow my choices down, but it looks like it is going in the opposite direction. Although, I think I can remove the boxer from my list if they truely are more high energy than dobermans (I also don't really like the idea of drool everywhere).

I forgot to mention one other breed that was reccommended to me... I told a vet tech at my local clinic about the breeds I was looking into and she reccommended that I get a standard poodle... According to her, they were used in the development of dobermans and can be quite protective. I know they can be very smart, but I don't know if I'm up to having a "froo" dog.

Thanks again for all of your help!
Bethany

I would like to speak up in favor of a greyhound for you. They would be perfect in all ways except for the guard dog aspect. There are some greys that are very good watch dogs, but I've never heard of one as a guard dog. One of my greys must have been a rott in his previous life with how he goes all Cujo whenever someone approachs my house or yard, but once you start telling him how adorable he is he will start wiggling all over with happiness and let anyone in. Most people though don't get close as he does sound very serious from a distance. As, for the most part, you can only get adult dogs anyway, you could ask around for one like this. There are so many greys that need homes, it shouldn't be too hard to find the right one for you. They also excell at being a companion dog and are so easy to live with and are a very clean dog.

On another note, all dogs can smell doggy, especially when wet. If they do, it usually means they need a bath and it goes away. No dog should smell bad on a day to day basis.

I don't understand this.
I want a dog, I don't want the dog smell like a dog.
Seems very like a contradiction in terms to me.
Would one expect to have a horse and not have it smell like a horse? Heck every animal has a smell. Even an aquarium has a smell.
If one doesn't like the smell of a dog........don't get one.

Randy

PS.
On the bye, cats stink. I know immediately if I walk into a house that has cats. They smell!

Edited by randy allen (07/13/2008 07:15 PM)
Edit reason: PS.

Thank you for the replies,
Elaine- I do love greys and even if I go with another breed as my first dog, I will certainly get a grey as a second dog.

Randy- The only situations that I've ever been in, in which I could smell cats is if they are unlatered (spraying the house) or if the litter boxes aren't kept clean. I can assure you, that unless you happened to see the cats in my house, you wouldn't know they were there (by smell, anyway). The litter boxes can be quite rank and it only takes one day of not scooping for them to get that way.

As to dog odor.. Some dogs smell more than others, perhaps it is that the shorter haired breeds and those without an odor don't "hold" as much dirt, dust, etc. thus, don't smell as much as breeds with an undercoat. Even after a thurough bath (including two shampoos/rinses and time to completely dry, my family's dog still smells doggy. In comparison, the very short haired dogs I've met (i.e. chihuahuas, schnauzers (when clipped), greyhounds, and boxers) just don't seem to have that same doggy smell about them. Now, it may be that they're just kept extraordinarily clean, but I think that the shorter hair helps in that regard.

It's not that I absolutely hate for a dog to smell like a dog, but I don't want someone to walk into my house and instantly think "they have dogs".

BTW, if you can hold your nose 1" above your tank and it smells "fishy" it's time to do a partial water change (the smell is from the build up of fish poo, etc.).

Thanks again for your help.
Bethany

Well okay, whatever you say.

Cats don't smell like cats. Fish don't have an odor.

Then you can have a dog that doesn't smell like a dog I suppose.

Randy

Bethany, the greyhound sounds like it would be a good choice for you,
AL