Besides OB work, I spend time with my dogs by taking them running, hiking, and by doing water retrieval (one of my GSGs thinks she is a lab), and prey drive building exercises. It's fun to see that a dog's prey drive can be increased. I've seen one GSDs prey go from zero and steadily increase over time to the point the dog would jump 5' or 6' in a heartbeat to get at their favorite tug. That same dog now has a deep grip with a mean head shake. Unlike others, I like the head shake. I definitely enjoy the prey drive work and try to make it as fun for the dog as possible. I would enjoy hearing how other owners are mixing up prey drive work. Like Mr. Frawley, I like to have my dogs favorite tugs tied to a piece of rope, with the other end of the rope tied to a handle I hold in my hand. I'll start the exercise by already having the dog outside and alone and I'll walk outside with the tug and handle held up in the air as high as I can as I say, "Oh, look what I got" or whatever in a high, squeaky voice. The dog is usually going nuts jumping up very high in the air and that's fine by me. I will soon throw the toy out and start swinging it around while saying the dog's attack command over and over. When the dog gets the tug (it must earn it) I immediately say "good" and if I can, I'll give the dog a pat on the head or chest or side, while pulling hard on the tug and then backing off, pulling hard, backing off. I'll do this until the dog loses the tug, and go back to letting the dog chase the tug, still giving the word for attack. I know that OB work is not good for prey drive, but I think it is important to have some OB (espescially recall) work put in place once in awhile with prey drive, so here's that exercise. I will only do this when the dog is rested and has not seen the tug for awhile. Doing it any other way is a waste of time, to me. I will come outside and hold the tug over my head, teasing the dog, and then release the tug, swinging it around, giving my dog the attack command. I will then abruptly hold the tug over my head and put the dog in a sit. I will walk somewhere out in the yard and hang the tug in a tree where the dog can see it. I'll have the dog heel and follow me around, gaughing how much the dog is watching me, or how much he/she is watching the tug. I will then walk the dog about 20' from the tug, have her heel, and put her in gear with the "pass off" command. I realize it is spelled incorrectly. The dog is to sit next to me and bark at the tug. While she/he barks, I will calmly pet her head, not too much, just a touch. I know I wouldn't be petting her/his head in a real encounter. I want her to know that it's okay to bark when I say "pass off" but I also want her to know I want her sitting. Anyway, sometimes this is where the exercise ends. Done for the day. Other times, I will give the attack command and let the dog go for the tug and have it. I will immediately run in behind the dog, grab the handle, and engage in tug. What I really use this exercise for is final option or combination of how it can end, that is, in recall. I will hang up the tug in the tree, give the pass off command, send out the dog, and halfway to the tug I will give the "come" command. I want to know, I want to make very certain that my dog will do an immediate 180 on a dime and come when she/he is in drive, or otherwise fixated on some kind of target. Recall is really easy in a field when a dog is undistracted and staring at their handler 3' away with a hot dog in their hand. My first PPD and my first decoy taught me that a revved up dog is selectively obedient unless some real training care and effort is in place. I know some people will not like this exercise, but I think it is just as important as seeing a dog bite down into a sleeve. I do not have the luxury of being able to have other owners help me in my training unless it is about once a month with a decoy. I would be interested in hearing how other owners who work their own dogs (not in agitation)use prey drive in a way that mirrors/prepares/helps the dog in PPD work. Basically, anything that builds prey and enhances the PPD ability of the dog.

I'd love to help here with an insightful comment, but it's impossible to read a block of information posted that way.

Paragraphs are your friend, and I mean that in a helpful way.

 Quote: thomas sonnier

When the dog gets the tug (it must earn it) I immediately say "good" and if I can, I'll give the dog a pat on the head or chest or side, while pulling hard on the tug and then backing off, pulling hard, backing off. I'll do this until the dog loses the tug, and go back to letting the dog chase the tug, still giving the word for attack.

Does the dog ever get to "win" the tug, that is, take it away from you?

Sure, he/she gets to win. I like to walk toward them as they pull, as if they were tugging me. I give side to side tension at that point and smile and cheer. They know I'm happy with them when they get my sqeaky voice, taught to me by a female trainer. I sometimes give them no tension and let them stand there with the tug in their mouth. If they bow and wrap their paws around the tug and get chewy, I immediately put tension on the tug and get their head up. If they drop the tug, I snatch it up. Sometimes I immediately throw the tug out and let them have it again. I've thought about ending the entire session if they drop the tug once, but hardly do I have the diligence. I enjoy watching them in prey way too much.

So you never let go of the tug and let the dog carry it?

Yes, I let go of the tug and let them carry it, probably half the time. You think I should do it every time?

My male GSD won't run away with the tug nor will he keep it in his mouth for very long without any tension. He shows little posession for the tug unless there is tension, or unless it is moving. And when it is moving, he goes nuts for the tug. My female GSD has a much greater prey drive and much greater desire for posession. She will not only continue her grip once I have let go of the tug, she will run all around the yard and do her best to keep the tug away from me.

I think the dog should win, when they've done everything right.
Good deep bite, solid grip, calm on the sleeve/tug, etc.

I wait for the dog to counter, and release the prey.

The idea is to teach the dog that they can win, in all situations. Especially in a PPD, you want to build in the dog a confidence that they can fight and win against any adversary.

Are you working with a helper?

(For Will, because I really think his opinion should be heard... Sorry if I over steped my bounds... :eek

Besides OB work, I spend time with my dogs by taking them running, hiking, and by doing water retrieval (one of my GSGs thinks she is a lab), and prey drive building exercises. It's fun to see that a dog's prey drive can be increased. I've seen one GSDs prey go from zero and steadily increase over time to the point the dog would jump 5' or 6' in a heartbeat to get at their favorite tug. That same dog now has a deep grip with a mean head shake. Unlike others, I like the head shake.

I definitely enjoy the prey drive work and try to make it as fun for the dog as possible. I would enjoy hearing how other owners are mixing up prey drive work.

Like Mr. Frawley, I like to have my dogs favorite tugs tied to a piece of rope, with the other end of the rope tied to a handle I hold in my hand. I'll start the exercise by already having the dog outside and alone and I'll walk outside with the tug and handle held up in the air as high as I can as I say, "Oh, look what I got" or whatever in a high, squeaky voice. The dog is usually going nuts jumping up very high in the air and that's fine by me. I will soon throw the toy out and start swinging it around while saying the dog's attack command over and over.

When the dog gets the tug (it must earn it) I immediately say "good" and if I can, I'll give the dog a pat on the head or chest or side, while pulling hard on the tug and then backing off, pulling hard, backing off. I'll do this until the dog loses the tug, and go back to letting the dog chase the tug, still giving the word for attack.

I know that OB work is not good for prey drive, but I think it is important to have some OB (espescially recall) work put in place once in awhile with prey drive, so here's that exercise. I will only do this when the dog is rested and has not seen the tug for awhile. Doing it any other way is a waste of time, to me.

I will come outside and hold the tug over my head, teasing the dog, and then release the tug, swinging it around, giving my dog the attack command. I will then abruptly hold the tug over my head and put the dog in a sit. I will walk somewhere out in the yard and hang the tug in a tree where the dog can see it. I'll have the dog heel and follow me around, gauging how much the dog is watching me, or how much he/she is watching the tug.

I will then walk the dog about 20' from the tug, have her heel, and put her in gear with the "pass off" command. (I realize it is spelled incorrectly.) The dog is to sit next to me and bark at the tug. While she/he barks, I will calmly pet her head, not too much, just a touch. I know I wouldn't be petting her/his head in a real encounter. I want her to know that it's okay to bark when I say "pass off" but I also want her to know I want her sitting.

Anyway, sometimes this is where the exercise ends. Done for the day. Other times, I will give the attack command and let the dog go for the tug and have it. I will immediately run in behind the dog, grab the handle, and engage in tug.

What I really use this exercise for is final option or combination of how it can end, that is, in recall. I will hang up the tug in the tree, give the pass off command, send out the dog, and halfway to the tug I will give the "come" command. I want to know, I want to make very certain that my dog will do an immediate 180 on a dime and come when she/he is in drive, or otherwise fixated on some kind of target.

Recall is really easy in a field when a dog is undistracted and staring at their handler 3' away with a hot dog in their hand. My first PPD and my first decoy taught me that a revved up dog is selectively obedient unless some real training care and effort is in place. I know some people will not like this exercise, but I think it is just as important as seeing a dog bite down into a sleeve.

I do not have the luxury of being able to have other owners help me in my training unless it is about once a month with a decoy. I would be interested in hearing how other owners who work their own dogs (not in agitation)use prey drive in a way that mirrors/prepares/helps the dog in PPD work. Basically, anything that builds prey and enhances the PPD ability of the dog.

I like your thoughts on helping the dog's confidence by letting him/her win. I agree. I would stop playing tennis with someone if they beat me everytime hands down.

I will often let the dog pull me forward while praising the dog in a high voice. I will also twist the rope around the dowel rod/handle and reel the dog in (makes petting their head quite easy), then let the dog pull and let the string unwind off the dowel. They like that a lot and try even harder when they realize they are making marked progress in moving away from me.

With my male, I'll try more in the future to release when he first counters and see how he reacts over a few sessions.

With your grey sable, when she (guessing) counters and you release, what typically happens next with her behavior? Do you re-engage her in prey or does each session involve only one take? Like I wrote before, my male stands around for a minute then drops the tug, while my female heads for the hills with the tug in a big game of keep away.

I lost my professional decoy and am currently limited to a novice decoy who does not have a bite sleeve (hidden or otherwise). We are limited to muzzle fighting and using a jute towel in lieu of a sleeve while the dog is back tied. Thanks for the back and forth.

When I let her (you were right) win the tug, she carries it, and does a nice "prey prance" and some vicious head shaking.

I call her back to me and reengage the tug, without her having let go. She willingly returns to me with the tug, so the game can continue.

The process is similar with a helper, but I direct her onto a pocket tug so I can kick the larger tug/sleeve back to the helper, who then reengages her.