This morning Loki and Yote had a disagreement. Thank god It didn't escalate into a full blown fight because my husband was standing right there.

Yote and I had just come in for a walk and as went to walk back into the house Loki was right there in Yote's face and being a pain in the butt, and ignored the back off signals that yote was clearly sending.

Loki being right in Yote's face as we walk inside has been a problem before, frankly Loki being an idiot when anyone walks in the house has been an ongoing problem with this dog and while we have solved it with us we still have to put him away when guests come over because he is all over them

He is not a very smart dog, and he is not very good at reading body language of people or other dogs.

I know the dogs are stressed because their routine is all off kilter and when I have been home I have been so busy that other than the usual daily walk their life has been as off balance as ours this last week.

So back to today Loki was up in Yote's face and dancing around and pushing into him and doing the stupid hound dog happy dance and Yote gave a warning grumble and when that didnt work his hackles went up.

Loki still did not back off so Yote gave a real growl and then Loki went for it. Despite Yote's annoyance it was clearly loki who went in for the fight...I don't know what to do with these two.

I also told Loki to "Out!" several times as this was starting and he was in his own little world of personal space intrusion so he didn't out.

I still had a hold of the leash so I yanked Yote backwards and Chad jumped in front of Loki and basically body slammed him and put him on the ground to stop his advance towards Yote.

Loki then growled at chad, which he has NEVER done before being the most submissive dog I have ever had.
I assume the growling at chad was due to fear and misplaced aggression?
This whole encounter took only about 30 seconds but I can remember it in slow motion. there is nothing worse than a dog fight IMO, or even the precursor to one.

the two male dogs are never alone together because they have had a few conflicts in the past, albeit few and far between. When I see the two of them eyeing each other or starting to play too rough I do something like whistle and walk out of the room or rattle a treat bag and that distraction is enough to stop the encounter.

But what is the proper protocol for after a squabble, how do you correct and make it clear that it is not tolerated and will not be allowed in our pack.

Chad was rougher with Loki then we ever have been before, but he also got growled at and was worried about these two 75 lb dogs tearing eachother apart in the living room.

Oh and Loki is 4, nuetered about a year ago, and Yote is exactly 1 and intact.

Let me mention that "adult neutered male named so-and-so" or "one-year-old intact male named such-and-such" at the beginning of the post would be very helpful. Maybe it's just me, but the whole long post was confusing to me until the very last sentence, because I had no idea of the ages or genders.

I'm old. Give these aged brain cells a fighting chance with upfront info.

But what is the proper protocol for after a squabble, how do you correct and make it clear that it is not tolerated and will not be allowed in our pack.

IMHO, there is no protocol for after a squabble. There's prevention, and there's what to do "during," if prevention has slid, and there are immediate corrections.

The time to make it clear that it will not be tolerated has passed, for this particular episode.

Pack leadership work needed. It sounds like no attention was paid to you at all.

Also, environmental management was entirely missing. The dog who was known to cause trouble with the other one at the door was still allowed to be there at your entrance, and the dog with you was allowed to enter in front of you (apparently), and the confrontation was allowed to escalate ... all three avoidable.

When I see the two of them eyeing each other or starting to play too rough I do something like whistle and walk out of the room or rattle a treat bag and that distraction is enough to stop the encounter.

What would you do if you were alone with them and something like today's blow-up happened?

I also told Loki to "Out!" several times as this was starting ..... he didn't out.

Repeated commands (especially in an excited voice) are kind of like fuel on a fire. Does Loki wear a drag line?

... when anyone walks in the house has been an ongoing problem with this dog and while we have solved it with us we still have to put him away when guests come over because he is all over them

Actually, it doesn't sound solved. Not entirely sure that the door behavior was actually the sole reason for the altercation, especially since the door-misbehaving dog was also the guy who threw the first punch (if I am reading it right), but I'd probably work daily on the whole door thing, and I'd probably have drag lines on the dogs unless and until I had much better control.

(Just me, personally) I'd correct -- a high-level correction -- for aggression. Right then and there. But I'd rather prevent it with separation, control, and solid door behavior.

Even if door misbehavior wasn't the sole trigger, the blow-up would not have happened without it, right?

Loki being right in Yote's face as we walk inside has been a problem before ...

I'm sorry if the post was confusing, Its been a very long week and I think I am brain dead!!!

Its good to know that correction is appropriate in the moment, once they have been separated. I wasn't sure how to address it in the immdediate aftermath of the situation. Loki was heavily corrected (more heavily than I would I have liked) both for the initial aggression and then more so growling at Chad. Yote was yanked backwards hard enough to yelp and loose his footing and then told NO BAD DOG!!,

We will continue to work on the door behavior, your right that it is not totally solved.

He does not jump all over us and act like a total idiot when we walk in, but when a guest does he still has little to no self control so we simply put him away before anyone new comes inside. We let him out when he has calmed down, or maybe not at all if they are not staying long.

Loki does not wear a drag line anymore, but I can certainly go back to that. The only other option I know is to put him away when I leave to go on a walk with Yote and let him out once Yote is settled back in the house. Which I may do if I take Yote out walking when Chad is not home.

The one time they got into it when I was home alone with them I dumped a bowl of water on them to break it up.

 Quote: Jennifer Lee

Yote and I had just come in for a walk and as went to walk back into the house Loki was right there in Yote's face and being a pain in the butt, and ignored the back off signals that yote was clearly sending.

I agree with Connie drag line at all times. Do you have crates for them? I think I would incorporate much more pack work with these two.

Starting now you should enter the door before Yote; it will give you the chance to claim the space and if Loki ignores that and has a complete understanding of a command that sends him to his place when you enter and he does not comply then correct don't leave it to Yote. BTW the one year old unneutered whippersnapper claiming space before the supposed Alpha (you) and ignoring the signals of the older more established dog Loki isn't what I would call back off signals.....I'd be more likely to interpret this as a challenge.

 Quote: Jennifer Lee

Loki being right in Yote's face as we walk inside has been a problem before, frankly Loki being an idiot when anyone walks in the house has been an ongoing problem with this dog and while we have solved it with us we still have to put him away when guests come over because he is all over them.

I see this as a lack of leadership and/or training; more practice with positive reinforcement training and building a strong foundation in pack structure is needed.

 Quote: Jennifer Lee

He is not a very smart dog, and he is not very good at reading body language of people or other dogs.

I disagree. Loki continues to practice a behavior which is rewarding to him and you're making excuses for him which lets him off the hook. He sounds genius to me

 Quote: Jennifer Lee

I know the dogs are stressed because their routine is all off kilter and when I have been home I have been so busy that other than the usual daily walk their life has been as off balance as ours this last week.

I agree this time of year can be topsy turvy and can cause stress all around but....... too bad Yote and Loki protocol and good behavior are still expected. Again, Jennifer, excuses let them off the hook. I'd cut some slack if they shredded the newspaper or ran through the house jumping from couch to couch or other non-aggressive ways to blow off steam but with the exception of physical pain or illness; AGGRESSION is never excuseable (in my mind anyway)

With that being said I don't have the experience in aggression to suggest the right course of action once a squabble has occurred. If you can learn from it and prevent a reoccurrence, I'd call that progress

Thank you for your input, I am completely committed to solving this problem and providing a safe and comfortable environment for every one in the family to live in at home. Aggression is absolutely not tolerated

I did repeat the command and I'm sure the tone and pitch of my voice did egg it on, I saw what was coming and its hard to stay calm.

Out simply means to go away from the current location, and obviously isn't well trained for Loki. I will work on a place command so he will have a clear place to go when I need him away from where he is. and start fresh with a command that isn't already sketchy.

I do put him in a sit before going in or out of the door, but I haven't been careful enough to make sure he stays behind me when we actually walk in the door.

Jen, I know the pain I have a female working GSD and the only problem is the door way, and she will not stop.So i just make sure that all is in check before I leave and come back.She will go from nice to no warning at a door way,she is 3 and good in all other parts of life,kids,cats,puppies,and strangers.I have had her since she was 8 weeks,so go fiqure.So we take the doorway percautions.Love her anyway! DEE

 Quote: Jennifer Lee

Loki being right in Yote's face as we walk inside has been a problem before... He is not a very smart dog, and he is not very good at reading body language of people or other dogs...

So back to today Loki was up in Yote's face and dancing around and pushing into him and doing the stupid hound dog happy dance and Yote gave a warning grumble and when that didnt work his hackles went up.

Loki still did not back off so Yote gave a real growl and then Loki went for it. Despite Yote's annoyance it was clearly loki who went in for the fight...I don't know what to do with these two.

In addition to being a training issue, it seems to me you have major management issues to get a handle on.

You already KNOW the one dog is going to be a jerk at the door, so why is that dog even able to put itself in this position? Whether you can ever reach a level of obedience that will enable this dog to be free in the house while you are entering with the other dog is an open question, so management is critical. When you go out to walk one dog, the other should be in a crate. Once you've returned and things have calmed, then let him out.

I also don't get how you let things escalate between these two dogs. If the one doesn't pay attention to the signals from the other to back off, then you can't let them get into situations where the one isn't paying attention to the other's signals.

From your description, it sounds like you are standing by and watching this kind of thing play out. Don't let it get that far. IMO, you should be stepping in way before it gets to the point where the one dog has continued to ignore and bug the other one.

I do think drag lines are a good idea, but you can't just rely on them, either. What if you can't get to the line in time? As you said, these things happen very quickly.

JMO...

leih

I have been making sure that while Yote is going in or out of the door Loki is put away, they no longer go in or outside together at the same time.

If both are going outside to potty and play together then Yote goes outside first, is clipped to the deck for about 30 seconds while I go in and get Loki and bring him outside. Once Loki is off the deck I let Yote loose and all is well.

To go inside I again clip Yote to the deck, put loki inside either in his crate or in the bedroom then bring Yote in and about 5 minutes later I let Loki out.

When Yote and I go on our walk Loki is either on the leash if my husband is home. My husband is having him sit on his bed with clicks and treats while holding the leash when Yote and I walk back in the door or when he is at work I put him either in his crate or in the bedroom so that he won't be able to be an idiot at the door when we walk back inside.

I am also going to do better about taking Loki for walks so he can get out and about and get some of his pent up tension and energy out, I know that more exercise is always a help when curing behavior problems and more one on one attention is always a good thing for dogs.

We also have a friend recruited to work on his manners with new people coming in,

 Quote: Jennifer Lee

I am also going to do better about taking Loki for walks so he can get out and about and get some of his pent up tension and energy out, I know that more exercise is always a help when curing behavior problems and more one on one attention is always a good thing for dogs.

I know it's a pain, but it sounds like you're doing the right things in terms of management. The extra exercise is a great thing, too!

Good luck with the training part as well

leih