Hello all,

I am fostering a litter of pitbull puppies who were abandoned at my local animal shelter when they were only a few days old. They were incredibly sick when I got them, and two of the puppies did not make it (there are four left). Finding this site was instrumental in saving the rest of the litter, as the shelter was unwilling to provide them with any veterinary care. They are just about three weeks old now, and since I'm not a breeder I was hoping I could get some advice on moving forward. I've fostered a few litters of puppies and several litters of kittens, but given how difficult this litter has been I was hoping I could get some advice to make sure I'm doing things right.

A few questions on diet:

I've been feeding them the puppy formula advocated on this site, and I'm sure it's the reason the remaining pups are alive. The "Bottle Feeding and Hand Raising Puppies" pdf advocates adding raw hamburger to their formula at about 4 1/2 weeks, but I was wondering at what point I should transition them to the diet on
this page?

Since I'll have no ability to control what they are fed once they are adopted, should I give them some kibble / commercially sold puppy food? I'm worried that there be a problem with them transitioning to this type of food if they have never eaten it before.

Their habitat:

Right now I have them in a 2 foot x 3 foot crate which has towels covering the entire floor, a heating pad in one corner, and a small dog bed in another. Any suggestions on this?

In the past when I've had pups that were about 4 weeks I sectioned off part of my kitchen (which is the only place in my house that isn't carpeted). In that area I put a large crate for them to share that had a heating pad, covered most of the floor in towels, had a feeding / water area, and covered one end of their area in newspaper. Anything I'm missing?

Behavior / socialization:
It is my understanding that with pit bulls it is important that they be socialized so they are comfortable with strangers, in public places, etc. Is this something I should be doing while I have them? I have dogs and cats so they will most likely be okay with other animals.

And finally, a somewhat random question but I thought that under the circumstances, perhaps I should check: I have a 3 year old male Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. Whenever I have fostered litters of puppies or kittens, he seems to designate himself as their adopted mother. He will spend hours licking them, sleep next to their crate, and has even allowed animals to 'nurse' on him. It's pretty bizarre, but he will actually let them suck on his skin for hours at a time. Here is a link to a pic of him with 2 kittens:

He has done the same thing with this litter of puppies. Obviously I don't allow him to interact with them unless I'm watching, particularly when they are this small, but is there any thing I should be worried about with this? Also, has anyone ever heard of male dogs doing this?

Thank you so much for your help!

Carolyn,

Congrats on what sounds like a job very well done. They are a lucky bunch to have you. Honestly, it sounds like you've got things pretty well under control.

I would worry more about taking these pups in public than "normal" pups. They did not have the benefit of their dam's antibodies, so I would keep socialization to a minimum, except on your property or other safe(er) places. A genetically correct Pit Bull should not be aggressive to people, period. Don't put them in physical jeopardy just to try to socialize. Not worth it in this case, IMO.

Your male is unusual, but not unheard of. I have 5 yr old male GSD who does similar things. No nursing, and he doesn't spend that long licking them, but he watches them carefully and makes sure they're all together, and allows them to do just about anything to him. It seems that your dog would be a positive influence on them from what you are describing. Keep them supervised, like you have been, and then thank him for being such a nice dog to the puppies. It is good for them to have a positive canine influence.

On food, I don't think it is crucial either way to introduce kibble or not. Do you have any control over the adopters? Do you get to meet them? If they are on all-raw, and the potential adopters see them thriving, they may be less likely to want to switch them. Maybe, maybe not. Worth a try, IMO.

Edited by Jenni Williams (12/30/2008 03:14 PM)
Edit reason: forgot to mention food

Carolyn,

The one time I had puppies that young we went to a thrift store and bought a child's playpen (it was like $10 used) that sits a few inches off the floor. They typically have waterproof pads on the bottom, I believe we used newspaper to cover it for easy clean ups. The playpen was great because it made it easy to get the pups out for feeding or changing soiled paper. The bed and heating pad sound great. Other than this I can't give you any other advice. Good luck.

Kimberly

I have only fostered one litter but I do recommend an ex-pen. It is 4 feet by 4 feet and will give them more room to move about.

For the diet I weaned my pups onto raw ground beef and turkey mixed with their Leerburg formula. I had the same concerns as you though, and alternated it with meals of kibble soaked in formula. I used Innova puppy, and provided my puppy adopters with a small bag of Innova so at least the pups owners would be encouraged to feed high quality kibble. However, the choice to wean onto raw or commercial food is up to you; raw is of course better but most people would probably feed the dogs kibble.

For socializing I did as much research as I could. I followed the rule of 7: By the time the pups are 7 weeks, they should have been introduced to 7 new surfaces (wood, grass, carpet, linoleum, etc); 7 new sounds (blender, television, cars, kids playing); I forget what they all were but I tried to do it all. I also rotated toys, made sure they were used to collars, leashes, crates, car trips, kids and people, etc, by the time they were 8-10 weeks old. I used to take them on car trips to the pet store in pairs starting at 6 weeks old (I'd bring a friend and we'd carry them then let them explore a bit)

Hope that helps somewhat.

 Quote: Angela Burrell

I used to take them on car trips to the pet store in pairs starting at 6 weeks old (I'd bring a friend and we'd carry them then let them explore a bit)

The pet store is the absolutely LAST place a pup that young should be on the ground. Do you know how many people don't clean up after their pets properly in those stores? It only takes one who didn't use disinfectant to give them parvo.

One of my parents male boxers will babysit puppies real well. The older one tends to look at us like we're out of our minds when we bring in pups. All three are trustworthy with older pups(6+ weeks) but Alistair really likes them.

What I have read (no personal experience) is that socializing at that age means NOT on the ground in places where there are unknown pups. That would really leave out pet supply stores.

I never take my pups somewhere unknown dogs have been or will be, I don't even set them down on the floor of the vets office until they are too big for me to carry.

I do however have an Ace hardware near my house that allows dogs, but I have never seen another dog in there ever, and I am in the store several times a week for one thing or another.

I just happened to notice dog treats sitting by the cash register in a jar one day and asked about it.

I still didn't set him down on the floor as a small pup but I would either carry him or put him in the basket and push him around.

We still go at least a couple times a month and all the workers know him and give him treats. That place was instrumental in overcoming his fear as a pup

Yes OK I stand corrected... that is why it's good that this is a forum you can get advice from many people. Don't let your puppy walk on the floor.

The important point is YES you should get them out in the world, but take them in pairs if you can if they are under 8 weeks, and carry them. My pups were rotated so that they went out about twice or 3 times in a week.

At the age they are now you should be introducing new surfaces and sounds.

To the others who responded - is it OK if you are carrying the puppy and people want to pet them? Having several people-shy dogs at home, and wanting to avoid it in the pups, I encouraged it if the pups seemed happy and calm.

Rule of sevens:
http://www.norfolkterrier.org/articles_p-s/puppysocialization01.html
http://www.echowyn.com/Ruleof7.html

I add to those that the puppy should have experienced a collar and leash, crate, and car trips.

Thanks so much for all the suggestions. They seem to be doing pretty well right now, fingers crossed!

I guess the only thing that I'm still unsure about is introducing them to the puppy diet that is recommended here. I'm going to start introducing ground beef to their formula in a week or so, but after that I'm not sure when to introduce new foods.

Is there a guide for what sort of food they can handle and when?