I have been training Narc work (sigma training aids)
with my 2 year old Mal, for a few months now.

He picked it up, in an amazing way. He's a natural.

The only problem at this point is.... we have gotten to the stage in training in which I have decided to give blanks. (searches without any drugs to find)

I tried it today for the first time, and he sniffed the boxes, then looked up at me, and false alerted.
I knew he was going to false alert, I should not have put him in that situation without consulting a pro.

So my question... how is this done? sending a dog into a search with no drugs for the 1st... actually 2nd time.
I can't decide if I should reward the dog, ignore false alerts... I'm totally lost on this one.
Any advice would be great.

thank you in advance!
-ted

Hi, Ted:
Why do you think he false alerted?

I'm assuming that when you say "boxes," that you're talking about some type of scent training box. If so, what type of boxes are you using? Do you have one box dedicated to containing the drugs (meaning you removed that entire box for a blank search and didn't just remove the drugs from the box). Just trying to cover the obvious things (like residual scent) here.

Do you have video of you working/training with the dog?

And, to answer your question about rewarding - never reward for a false alert.

Unless you've only been working on one box, the dog has been going over blanks. If you've only been using one box, then the dog has not had the opportunity to sniff blanks. Make sense? If you are at a stage in training where the dog is; searching, going to source and responding, then it's time where you don't know where the targets are located. The dog should at least be exposed to 3 boxes. That way each time there will be the possiblity of a blank. When training is compressed with lots of trials and lots of positives, the dog expects to find something. When the dog learns it actually has to find one thing among many then it learns to continue searching until it finds what it is trained to find. In training, particularly with a new dog, I find it best to completely ignore a response on anything but the odor. Repeat the command to search and continue. Of course when the dog responds on the correct target, reward that behavior. I'll leave my rant against pseudos for another time.

DFrost

Is the box that he "False alerted" on one that has held drugs in the past? If so, there may be enough residue left that he didn't actually false alert.

Konnie and David, thank you for your comments.

I should have clearified more.

I suppose I never thought of a (blank) as being one object.
When I used the word blank, I had ment.... an entire search (at least 4-6 articles to search) without any drugs to be found.

From the beginning of our training, the dog has learned that, when I give the comment, find the drugs..... there is ALWAYS drugs to be found. I except that is MY fault for teach that, every search = drugs= alert = tug.

So now I am faced with training this dog that.... not every search will produce a drug find. Since he is expecting to find drugs on every search (cars, buldings, warehouse, backage, or package) ... How can I teach him that some searches will not have any drugs, without him getting confused and false alerting when he can't find the drugs he thinks must be in the area?

thanks

P.S. David, as I am not a police officer I have no access to real drugs to train with at this point.... if I did have legal ability to have drugs for training, I would in a heart-beat

 Quote: ted efthymiadis

Konnie and David, thank you for your comments.

I should have clearified more.

I suppose I never thought of a (blank) as being one object.
When I used the word blank, I had ment.... an entire search (at least 4-6 articles to search) without any drugs to be found.

From the beginning of our training, the dog has learned that, when I give the comment, find the drugs..... there is ALWAYS drugs to be found. I except that is MY fault for teach that, every search = drugs= alert = tug.

So now I am faced with training this dog that.... not every search will produce a drug find. Since he is expecting to find drugs on every search (cars, buldings, warehouse, backage, or package) ... How can I teach him that some searches will not have any drugs, without him getting confused and false alerting when he can't find the drugs he thinks must be in the area?

thanks

Have you been training where the dog finds a target with each object? If so, start including blank "objects". One or two to start and then increase the number. Completely ignore any response except on the "object" that has the drug odor. If the dog does respond, simply give the search command and continue but ignore the response. The dog just has to learn that reinforcement will only come when it responds to the correct target. Start off with only a few blank "objects" then increase the number of blanks as the dog gains proficiency. If I start a dog on scent boxes, I always start with a minimum of three boxes. That way the dog learns from the intial training that he must discriminate one from many. It really prevents the "false" responding you are experiencing. As Konnie and Howard pointed out, it's also extremely important that you are not using a contaminated "object".

DFrost

Hey thanks David.
I always switch up boxes, just to make sure of no contamination.
When he false alerted, I know it wasn't a contamination alert, I could see he was really thinking about it... He sniffed each box, then got to the last box and sniffed it, no alert, then he looked up at me, and then gave up and just alerted, thinking he would get the tug. (which I ignored)

I only hide one, sometimes two drugs sources per area.... so that 90% or more of the items he smells will be (blanks)
BUT, he has learned until yesterday that EVERY search will produce some drugs. (search = searching the entire area)

So I am trying to take him form the (search= drugs everytime =tug) mentality, to a new way of looking at searching.
Searching, with a possiblity that there might not be any drug finds at all during that search.

Any ideas on how to get him to snap out of his outlook, and start looking at searches as something may not produce drugs.

We train FR also, and I was thinking about this today. In his mind, it's like me sending him out in the french ring field with the command SEARCH for the decoy. As the dog learns to run around each blind, until he finds the decoy. Now I have changed the game....and I just sent him out to search the blinds, and the decoy is sitting in a coffee shop three blocks away, instead of being behind one of the blinds. In the context of drug searches, he is expecting to find a drug, everytime he searches an area.

You see my problem?
Any help would be awesome, thanks so much everyone for talking time to help

BUT, he has learned until yesterday that EVERY search will produce some drugs. (search = searching the entire area)

So I am trying to take him form the (search= drugs everytime =tug) mentality, to a new way of looking at searching.
Searching, with a possiblity that there might not be any drug finds at all during that search.


What you've describes is nothing more than a timing issue. The dog has learned that he will find it within a certain amount of time. Conduct some blank searches, totally blank, shorter than the period of time the dog would normally false respond. Do a couple of those, then a search where he finds a target. Then it's just a matter of increasing the time between targets. find the time interval the dog performs successfully, gradually increase.

DFrost

Thanks David, great advice!
One last question.

By allowing him to search, and have success after every find, I have molded his mind to think that the search is not done until the drug are found. (ooooops!)

On searches in which there is no drugs, and he doesn't false alert. How do I end the search? Could I say, good search, lets go buddy. Then leave the room and do something else, or play tug, or do some obedience?

How do you guys and gals end your searches? The ones that have no drugs to find?

thanks so much for the great advice.