Hi everyone (and Ed, who completely makes me scared and as this is my first post I hope I do it right and keep him happy with me....),

I have a 4 year old Rhodesian Ridgeback bitch. She is petrified of even being in the waiting room of the vet clinic. She starts to shake all over uncontrollably, pants, breath speeds up, and salivates...I swear if she was in their long enough she'd throw up. Anyway, she's never had a bad experience with a vet since I've owned her (from 8 weeks), yet she has been like this since the first time I went to the vet. So I do have a plan, and wanted to get some feedback/advice with this idea I have.

The Plan:
1. Organize for my vet receptionist to have a small handful of dry dog food every time I come in (even though I hate the commercial stuff...it's convenient for this purpose).
2. Walk into the clinic, straight up to the receptionist where Simba eats the food (if she's not too nervous) and get out as fast as I can without talking to anyone.
3. Repeat this procedure for one week (depending on how she seems)
4. Once she is perfectly ok with this, gradually start to build up the time we hang around the receptionist, in the clinic.
5. Progress to sitting in a clinic chair for a few seconds (still at first taking the food from the receptionist's hand).
6. Build up the time spent in the chair with each visit.
7. Skip the receptionist (and the food) and sit straight on the chair. All this time she wont be visiting the actual vet, as I don't think that's the problem...I think once she is comfortable in one room of the clinic, she will be comfortable in every room.

Ok, good plan, bad plan, dumb plan? Any constructive comments/advice very welcome.

Thanks.
Me

Hi Michaela,

How are you feeling when you're with her in the waiting room of the vet's office? What do you do to her when she's anxious (i.e., do you talk to her to try to calm her, ignore her, etc.)?

Is she equally anxious in other "waiting rooms" (e.g., attorney offices, public waiting areas, etc.)? Are there other animals around in the vet's waiting room when you're there?

If you're anxious or anticipating her to be nervous, it may contribute to her behaviour. The reason I ask this is your step #2 implies there is anxiety on your part and rushing out like that may compound matters. Nonetheless, I think a few more details about the environment as well as how you and your dog react/feel in waiting-room environments would be helpful here.

How is she OUTSIDE the clinic? does she get nervous before you even get in the door? If so, you may want to start with work in the parking lot.

how is her food drive? You'd have to feed her something absolutely irresistable to get her motivated and forget about the scary vet's. I've had success with stinky bits of meat, like cooked bacon or pepperettes (not spiced) or commercial cat treats like Pounce or Tender Vittles. Bits of string cheese work well too.

The point is to get her so motivated to focus on food that she forgets to be worried about where she is.

I'd start at the very beginning. Do some heel and sits in the parking lot at the clinic. Reward obedience with lots and lots of praise and stinky treats. These are treats she ONLY gets at the vet. Very SPECIAL treats. Keep everything upbeat. When she does well, work up to actually going in the door, sit, reward & PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE, then leave. Do this a few times. Next can be the reception desk.

I've seen people do this with their fearful dogs at the vet's. It requires a lot of work but it's worthwhile, particularly for those dogs who have to see the vet frequently.

I would check with the receptionist and find out if there is a time of day that the reception area is quiet. A crowded, noisy waiting area is not going to help your efforts. Some vets stay open during lunch, but don't have scheduled appointments, so that would be an ideal time.

I would probably start the positive association at the front door for a few days before even going inside the building. Once inside, I think you should be doing the treating, not the receptionist. This is a training exercise and you're Simba's trainer. I would ask the staff to ignore Simba: no touch, no talk, no eye contact while you're there.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that once she's fine in the waiting area she'll be OK elsewhere...be prepared that she won't be. I agree with Siaty that if you're anxious you may be contributing to her behavior so try to remain calm and patient.

If she's equally stressed out in other public areas then I would start working in those areas first, saving the vet's office for last.

JMHO

Don't leave the people out of the equation - they're a big factor. Try to identify the vet and the employees she seems to do better with. You'll need to get good at reading other people as well as your dog's reaction to them. When I got my current GSD from rescue, she was 18 mos old and extremely fearful and fear aggressive. I don't know her history. Unfortunately, a couple days after I got her, we made a trip to my vet. Ooh, bad experience for everyone. She was very aggressive toward the vet. She scared him and me.

Fast forward to yesterday. Another trip to the same vet's office. In my case, there are no issues in the reception/waiting area, even with dogs there. The aggression starts when she knows she's about to get touched, probed, shot, etc. But now I see a different vet and there's one particular vet tech that she's good with, so things usually go well.

Yesterday, the favorite tech was not there - my mistake for not verifying that first. We had to deal with the tech she doesn't like and who, obviously, is scared of her. In that situation, I'll use a muzzle when needed. One thing that does is to lower the anxiety/apprehension level of people in the room. I know you don't have an aggression issue, but my point is to be prepared to adjust to the environment.

Mike

 Quote: Michaela Taylor

.... and Ed, who completely makes me scared

I can help with that.

http://leerburg.com/playem.htm?name=flv/peanuts.flv

I have a bitch who is male aggressive at the vets, she had her nails cut at 8 weeks ,but was removed by the tech to the back, wrong move.She has never excepted since.I tryed new vet on 3 occassions always the same thing she went at any male who came near me or her.She has never bitten anyone, but that would be the time I couldnt promise,so I found a vet that has all female staff,as well as a big note no males to touch.My new vet handles gsd clubs in the area and is the best. She allows my girl to go from car to examine room, no uniforms, nor ever taken away from me.Guess what big surprise no aggression.You just have to find a vet that will work with you. Problem is alot of them are afraid and the dogs pick up on it.So lay down your rules and find a vet how will go along with it,you are the customer.They are hard to find.Best

 Quote: angela burrell

.... how is her food drive? You'd have to feed her something absolutely irresistable to get her motivated and forget about the scary vet's. I've had success with stinky bits of meat, like cooked bacon or pepperettes (not spiced) or commercial cat treats like Pounce or Tender Vittles. Bits of string cheese work well too. .... The point is to get her so motivated to focus on food that she forgets to be worried about where she is. ... I'd start at the very beginning. Do some heel and sits in the parking lot at the clinic. Reward obedience with lots and lots of praise and stinky treats. These are treats she ONLY gets at the vet. Very SPECIAL treats.

I have discovered the wonders of real cooked bacon as an irresistible distraction for a frightened dog. I mean actual bacon for people, cooked to create that smell they adore. I get no-nitrate/nitrite bacon and keep it in the freezer for special occasions (and this would qualify) ever since I used it with a panic-stricken shelter dog who had completely shut down, afraid to even look at anyone, afraid to eat. (I sat near him, not facing him, with my little dish of cooked bacon on the floor beside me. That's another story, but suffice it to say that it taught me the value of cooked bacon, and I have repeated that experiment with success. )

A tiny bit might appear in the car after you park, as a reward for the "sit" before leaving the car. And I agree 110% with taking the time to enjoy some basic ob, calm and upbeat, in the parking lot, off to the side.

I'd make it a calm experience all the way, and I'd consider breaking it down even more if the vet's office is close, doing just the parking lot and then leaving, coming back, repeating that, and maybe going into the entryway (or whatever).

You might aim for such a slow and calm process that just pulling in at that parking lot makes the dog lick her lips.

 Quote: mike armstrong

Don't leave the people out of the equation - they're a big factor. Try to identify the vet and the employees she seems to do better with. You'll need to get good at reading other people as well as your dog's reaction to them.

I have to say from our OWN experience, this is actually a biggie. The right person, with the right demeanor, can really help the dog. We've only really seen one brilliant canine bedside manner in a vet (he was a specialist actually), and a handful of pretty good ones, so they're not a dime a dozen - but if you recognize one, INSIST on always getting that individual when it's time for a visit. I'd also say yes to interaction (albeit minimal) with clinic staff during your training sessions, just keep it completely non invasive and upbeat toward Simba. Since those techs and vets will eventually be the ones touching and talking to her in the exam, she should at least get comfortable with them simply being in the same space as she is. Treating should be done by you though...

One trick that we worked on with Oscar to help him with similar vet directed anxiety was to use benign parts of a real exam as OB exercises - go into the vet, head straight to the scale, sit on it, get a treat, leave; go into the vet, have a tech pat him and look quickly into one ear, get a treat, leave; etc. Oscar will now go to sit on the scale first thing, practically without direction, because he knows it won't hurt, and he gets cookies out of it. It's like the vet is an obstacle course with lots of pre-rehearsed points along the way to get rewards... he does get stuck with a needle rarely, but it hasn't ruined a lot of the work we put into desensitizing him to most of the other parts of a routine exam.

 Quote: sarah morris

I would check with the receptionist and find out if there is a time of day that the reception area is quiet. A crowded, noisy waiting area is not going to help your efforts. Some vets stay open during lunch, but don't have scheduled appointments, so that would be an ideal time.

I would probably start the positive association at the front door for a few days before even going inside the building. Once inside, I think you should be doing the treating, not the receptionist. This is a training exercise and you're Simba's trainer.

I completely agree with the above 2 statements as well. If Simba's anxiety is really bad, beginning all of this outside the building will help. Also, even once she's in a more relaxed mood about all of this, there's no reason you couldn't wait outside on the day of an actual appointment and have a tech come to get you when it's your turn - I hardly ever wait in the waiting room with Oscar... it just provides unnecessary "worry time" when he could be distracted sniffing the bushes in the parking lot. But that's in regards to a real appointment, for now, work on easing her into being comfortable in and around the office. It'll be a long slow process, but you have the right idea about where to begin.

~Natalya

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Michaela Taylor

.... and Ed, who completely makes me scared

I can help with that.

http://leerburg.com/playem.htm?name=flv/peanuts.flv

or this one:
http://leerburg.com/1157.htm


sometimes its hard to tell what will freak a dog out. Something could've happened at the vets that you think wouldn't effect the dog mentally, but turns out it does. It can be something completely subtle like a scent or just an action by the vet or one of the techs that now has your guy freaked.

I would definately do the treating yourself (as someone else suggested) you want all good things to come from you.

Are you doing any marker training, i think that would also be an option for you. Treat and mark for the accepted, quiet, calm while you are there.

I think someone else asked, but i don't recall seeing an answer. Is the dog ok in the room with just you and the vet? Is he just anxious in the waiting room?