My friend rescued a 3 going on 4 year old rottweiler back in December. The dog lived in a backyard for all of those years and for the first 3 years lived in a 6 foot by 12 foot kennel. The past 4 months after that, she slept in the garage or outside at a new house. She grew up with young kids and adults. Both adults worked from home in this household. This dog was grown up to be friendly, but wasn't socialized very much. When dog was originally brought home, was good dog overall, but aloof. I don't know what else to mention about her past history as this is most all I know. Please ask if you need more information.

Now for the issues. Everything this dog does needs to be done on her terms. She has tried to bite on multiple occassions due to her collar being touched for too long. Doesn't like her feet being touched or her body moved if she is in your way. She is very possesive if she gets something in her mouth and will boite you if she is pushed one step too far. Also, another problem is she growls constantly when any of the things are listed above.

My friend has started trying to clicker train which is getting the dog to focus more on my friend with no distractions. But the problem is the dog will start to growl faster, and is quicker to try and bite after the session is over. She is fixated on getting the treats and therefore gets upset when the game stops. She likes to act like she wants you to pet her, but as soon as you do, she starts acting uncomfortable.

The dog likes toys when she can take them from someone else but not really to play alone with. She likes food, and as soon as something goes in her mouth, you won't get it back out. She knows basic commands like sit, down, and stay, but they go out the window with distractions like people and dogs. She likes to meet and approuch strangers and dogs. With this said, she doesn't meet or approuch strangers or dogs, she would if she could though but my friend doesn't allow. With people it is due to her unpredictability, and with other dogs, she wants to smell other dogs, but once the dog approuches to smell her, she tries to walk away, clearly afraid of them. Sleeps in a crate as well.

My questions are what do you guys make of this dog from what I describe. Do you have any ideas as to help this dog along, or is this dog a lost cause? Do you all see fear as I do or something else? What types of tools should I recommend or training methods? Dvds that can help in this situation? Articles to read? Also, how do you deal with correcting the growling? The more you correct, the more she is likely to bite. My friend has read a few e-books on here but still recommend a few please.

I know I am a little unclear as this thread was very long but please ask me any questions and I will gladly respond. I know it is long, but I wanted to give as much information as I could. Thank you.

your going to need a trainer and a lot of time, there is no magic bullet for this, and you will always have to keep an eye on this guy and manage the situation

Thank you. Definitely know the trainer situation and at the moment, there is a lot being looking into of finding a trainer who is apporpriate for this situation as to not make it worse. Any recommendations on that would be great as well though.

And just to be more clear, this isn't my dog. I am not pulling the, I don't want to mention it is my dog cause I am embarrased thread. It truly isn't mine. I just am posting this without the other person's consent so that is why there are no names involved.

Ed has written a good number of articles on dominant and fear biting dogs. If you haven't yet I would take a look at them all and strongly recommend a good muzzle to your friend. Sadly this usually gets much much worse before it gets better unless the owner is committed to structure with the dog, safe handling, and professional advice.

Personally this would be a short lived dog in my home if it's truly handler aggressive and that randomly fearful. I've fostered a fair number of dogs over the years and sometimes there are some rescues that just can't be fixed.

Lamarr, you don't really describe the pack structure situation, but if I can infer from your post, perhaps this is lacking?

In addition to a trainer, your friend could certainly start on improving the pack structure in this dog's life. (the term 'nothing in life is free' comes to mind)

Here are a few links;
Free e-book: Pack Structure for Adult Dogs (Print and give to your friend)

DVD's to purchase:
Dominant and Aggressive Dogs
Pack Structure for the Family Pet

I am not clear on the motivation behind the dog's behavior. The dog sounds simply dominant and obnoxious in the first half of your post. Perhaps the dog was inadvertantly rewarded for this behavior in the past. For example; it sounds like the dog was ignored a great deal. Could some of this "on her terms" behavior be the result of HAVING to act this way to get any attention at all? Just something I wondered.

Explain what you mean by fear. I am not clear on what you think is fearful. You state "clearly afraid" b/c she walks away from other dogs. What is she doing that makes you think she is "clearly afraid?"

She sounds similar to a dog or 2 I know and the handler aggression can certainly be fixed. The problem is most people are not willing to do what it takes to fix it and lack the knowledge to do it properly. This is not something you experiment with until you get it right. I would suggest a seriously qualified professional trainer- I can't stress "seriously qualified" enough. I would say 90% of the pet trainers out there w/their b.s. "certifications" would possibly do more harm than good in this situation.

The dog is new to this home, relatively anyway. She has no reason in her mind to be respectful of your friend, and it doesn't sound like your friend is doing anything to demand respect. Clickers are ok....but are certainly not going to fix this problem especially if the dog is being accidentally rewarded for the wrong behavior, which it sounds to me like might be happening.

I could be way off...I really don't think I have a clear enough mental picture of what this dog is doing and the experience level of the current handler. Please elaborate.

I don't know how to respond to multiple quotes in one thread so I will have to answer each post individually.

 Quote: Melissa Thom

Ed has written a good number of articles on dominant and fear biting dogs. If you haven't yet I would take a look at them all and strongly recommend a good muzzle to your friend. Sadly this usually gets much much worse before it gets better unless the owner is committed to structure with the dog, safe handling, and professional advice.

Personally this would be a short lived dog in my home if it's truly handler aggressive and that randomly fearful. I've fostered a fair number of dogs over the years and sometimes there are some rescues that just can't be fixed.

With this, I have pointed my friend in the direction of the article and I own that Dvd so she has seen it as well. The muzzle will not be a good way to go at the moment. All muzzles connect around the head so this dog will have an issue the 1st time it goes on. After the 1st time and she knows what the muzzle is, she will not make it easy to put it on a 2nd time. If you had a muzzle that could be left on, it would be the way to go, but as this dog sleeps in a crate, I don't think it would be safe to put a basket muzzle on in there forever.

And as for being short lived, I can completely understand that as I 100% agree with what you are saying. But alas it is not my dog or I would be dealing with her a little differently. I have dealt with a few dogs like this, but I am by no means an expert and it is a lot harder when I am not the direct owner of this dog.

Out of curiosity...

Does your friend live alone or with a family? Kids or others who are at risk would change a lot on how I would handle the situation...

Also, how much experience does she have with dogs in general and aggressive and or fearful dogs specifically? In other words, is she equipped to deal with this?

Lamaar, who are you training with? Will your TD take a look or give advice?

The first half of the post did sound very much like a stubborn dog that for nearly four years has been allowed to be in charge, whether she can handle it or not... It will be a tough one to fix, but if your friend is up to it, it could likely be done. But it will take a commitment and realistic expectations.

I would seriously go the whole social isolation route that Ed has outlined and start over with her...

 Quote: Lynne Barrows

Lamarr, you don't really describe the pack structure situation, but if I can infer from your post, perhaps this is lacking?

In addition to a trainer, your friend could certainly start on improving the pack structure in this dog's life. (the term 'nothing in life is free' comes to mind)

Here are a few links;
Free e-book: Pack Structure for Adult Dogs (Print and give to your friend)

DVD's to purchase:
Pack Structure for the Family Pet

Pack Structure. This is where the biggest issue has been. I will admit to that because it was no easy task to get my friend to start this. But she has for the past 2 months been working on this. My friend is following everything in that article, or at least trying to. The only one that is an issue is over petting the dog. I try and stay out of the training, so I never give any advice during training but rather when the dog is in her crate. By doing this, it is always after the fact, but my friend has been working on this and so has been improving the nilif training with her.

 Quote: jenni williams

I am not clear on the motivation behind the dog's behavior. The dog sounds simply dominant and obnoxious in the first half of your post. Perhaps the dog was inadvertantly rewarded for this behavior in the past. For example; it sounds like the dog was ignored a great deal. Could some of this "on her terms" behavior be the result of HAVING to act this way to get any attention at all? Just something I wondered.

Explain what you mean by fear. I am not clear on what you think is fearful. You state "clearly afraid" b/c she walks away from other dogs. What is she doing that makes you think she is "clearly afraid?"

She sounds similar to a dog or 2 I know and the handler aggression can certainly be fixed. The problem is most people are not willing to do what it takes to fix it and lack the knowledge to do it properly. This is not something you experiment with until you get it right. I would suggest a seriously qualified professional trainer- I can't stress "seriously qualified" enough. I would say 90% of the pet trainers out there w/their b.s. "certifications" would possibly do more harm than good in this situation.

The dog is new to this home, relatively anyway. She has no reason in her mind to be respectful of your friend, and it doesn't sound like your friend is doing anything to demand respect. Clickers are ok....but are certainly not going to fix this problem especially if the dog is being accidentally rewarded for the wrong behavior, which it sounds to me like might be happening.

I could be way off...I really don't think I have a clear enough mental picture of what this dog is doing and the experience level of the current handler. Please elaborate.

This dog was in a backyard for all those years and with her owners being stay at home, she always saw them. But how she saw them is more than likely through a window. She was over weight when we met her, she looked like a tan mutt for the most part until she got a bath, and had no access to the house except for the garage occasionally. Also, her previous owners bought another dog with whom they showered with love and affection so this dog was 100% ostrisized.

Now with that little detail, I believe this dog is acting this way because it was never tought manners more so than this dog wanting attention. As of this moment, the more training my friend is doing, the more this dog is losing interest in them. And on the reverse, the dog seems to still like strangers and other people. One of those dogs you would say is bought by treats if they are good.

Fear, she does a lot of backing up, head low, and averts eye contact. She does do uncomfortable licking, but also, she has a longer, more wire like hair to her body. With this, it is not possible to see her hackles raise up. And by this, I have stared at her while she is stressed and have not seen them move. She always is curious of other dogs, but as soon as they come around to sniff, she will lower head and hide behind my friend. Will growl but has not ever attempted a bite. As soon as that dog turns away, she will again try to go back and sniff. Every dog she wants to meet. On this note, she has probably met a total of 5 dogs. All she did the same behavior with and none have been bigger than her.

Trainers is a touchy thing. I don't want to waste her time with sending her to people who aren't really qualified. I have taken a few dogs to trainers who were suppossed to be good at dealing with aggression or dominance. Each and every one told me I needed to put the dogs down the 1st day I went to have the dog evaluated and yet tried to get me to come back so they could work on the dogs more. I don't know many people who deal with this specifically and are good so if my dog needs to be put down, don't try to get me to come back and waste more time and money in training sessions. Do you get what I mean?

As for being rewarded for wrong behavior, that was one of my original questions I think when it came to a collar. She will try to hide from any collar you pick up and if she can't get away will begin to growl. Once on, she is fine but then when you need to take off the collar she doesn't want it taken off, and with coming off she is even more aggressive meaning she will try to bite. Treats are a joke in this situation because all the dog will do is take the treat and growl. In this situation, should I have my friend just put a collar and and forget it? I mean in the short term so my friend can deal with all the other issues at hand and come back to this when the dog is more trusting?