Hi there, since I'm new to marker training I thought I'd ask you all this question. Conan is fearful of walking at night. It's not the walking he's afraid of, just everything else. Almost anything that moves or makes noise that isn't me. He has no problems at all during the day. He doesn't get out of control, but he's very jumpy and just generally seems very stressed out and isn't having a good time. I was wondering if there was any way to implement marker training to get him to have fun on night outings? I always try to make it seem like it's very exciting and fun to go out at night (I'm sure the neighbors think I'm nuts ) but that's really all I know how to do.

I know that I am a little more nervous at night, just for safety reasons. But we live in an area that's pretty decent so there isn't any reason to be really anxious, which I don't feel I am. I stretch for about 10-15 minutes before going out and it helps get me in the right mindset. I know he could be playing off my anxiety, but he also does it if my boyfriend walks him. And he has no anxiety whatsoever, and actually prefers going out at night. We take the same route usually (if we switch it up, it's during the day). And we don't remember anything ever happening to scare him. But he is a bit of a soft dog, and is easily startled any time of day/night.

We went on a walk tonight and he seemed to do better. I've noticed (at least tonight) that he's more startled by things that are coming at him, or things he hadn't noticed yet. For example, someone bringing their trash cans out for pick up will startle him. Or a car that's driving down the street in our direction will make him freeze up a bit. But if it's something going away from him he actually seems interested. Every runner that passes him he wants to chase (this could have been reinforced by the recent herding training). I think if I let him off leash he would start driving the runners toward me. We do have a lot more people out at night, which might also be the cause. My nervousness at someone coming up behind me might scare him, but as I said before, my boyfriend has no issues with it at all and Conan acts the same way.

Any input would be great, thanks!

Hi Katie,

I know your question is about markers, but I thought I would just throw in some other things to do in conjuction. here's a little list:

1. check the dogs diet: i have noticed that dogs that are raised and fed on poor quality proteins generally have worse impulse control and fear issues. I would also supplent with fish oil for this. Ed has excellent info and products on diet to check out.

2.Check Ed's literature or videos on being the pack leader. if your dog is leading you in the home - it will be harder for him to do a switch to understanding that you will lead him safely on the walk.

3. next do some leash training where you teach him to "heel" actually BEHIND you on the walk. The easiest way would probbaly be to use a halti (not gentle leader the halti is more comfortable). Practice with him in an easy environment first - possibly even in the home - so he doesnt have to learn when hes out and scared.

4. Then, practice with the halti outside during the day

5, THEN, practice during early evening when it is not quite dark - possibly your walk might end when it is dark.

6. markers will probably come in handy by making certain 'check points" on the walk a place for a reward - having really brainstormed here much to be honest - maybe someone can jump in with suggestions. but shouldnt be hard to make it a positive experience if you do some positive based training at some point during the walk.

7. Lastly, give off vibes of calm energy - if your boyfriend isnt scared make sure he isnt annoyed or getting frustrated, if you want him to be happy give off those vibes - it WILL make a difference.

In short, remember there are usually a few things that need to be worked on when you have a problem like that, it is usually the whole picture that needs some adjusting. Your dog probably is genetically predisposed to the nervousness, but with patience I'm sure people on this board can help chip away at the problem so you at the least get steady progress forward even if it is a slow process. you may have a different dog 2 months, 6 months, or a year from now, but you should get there with dedication.

As a thought... any chance your dog has night blindness? Early stages of PRA are often manifested as night blindness.

You can hit up a cerf clinic in your area to make sure it's not the problem.

Thanks Melissa, we will definitely look into that. Hopefully it's not the problem!

Mike, Conan is fed Orijen kibble but we just recently switched him over. I haven't done any research on raw feeding and I know that doing it wrong is just as detrimental to his health as the crap in a bag kibble so I want to wait until I have more time.

You're probably right on the dot with the pack structure issue. This is probably what I should have asked from the beginning, now that I think of it. I'll have to go into the details of our day to day life at home, so I hope you mind the semi-life story.

I am 21 and a part time worker full time college student. I literally get up, go to work at 8am, go straight to school and come home around 10pm. My boyfriend works at home, and it was originally his idea to get Conan. We agreed it would work out because while I definitely didn't have the time needed for a dog, he did. Unfortunately, he underestimated the work that is needed and I think the problem started there.

Since then, we have had to move in with our roommate because of financial reasons (our old roommates left us because they had a good opportunity for a house they could afford, can't blame them). Our roommate has a dog, and while I knew he wasn't exactly into dog training, we didn't think it would be awful. Plus, he works full time and my boyfriend would be home alone with the dog for the most part. But our roommate generally has no knowledge about dogs or any desire to learn about them. His dog has always gotten away with everything, doesn't even have basic obedience down, and is pretty much a nightmare situation. He's housebroken, but that's about it. My boyfriend has worked with him while our roommate is at work and has gotten him to sit before being fed, but that's pretty much the extent of his training. Obviously, it's very hard to teach a dog rules when his owner comes home and throws them in the trash. Therefore, we've lost a lot of our good pack structure with Conan. I'm not saying it's completely our roommate's fault - it's not. But it certainly hasn't made it easy for us to get back on track. I've read Ed's articles and ebooks, and seen the videos, but still need to buy and watch the DVD.

I suffered a pretty bad knee injury in May and am still slowly recovering from it, so my boyfriend had to pick up the exercise with Conan, but he just isn't one to exercise and I can only try to motivate him so much without nagging. I love being active, but I can't run pain free and don't have a bike. My main focus before getting the pack structure under control was getting Conan enough exercise (which I thought would help anyways). That's why I started him in herding.

I'm not looking for any sympathy (which is why I've never mentioned this situation before), only for suggestions on what I can do to fix this situation. Just remember that moving out without a roommate isn't an option, because we just can't afford it. I couldn't even afford my own groceries without the help of my boyfriend and roommate. And finding a different roommate probably wouldn't make things any better because no one else we really know cares for dogs, and it would damage the relationship with our roommate now (who was a long time friend first). I know the economy is affecting everyone, but my hours have been cut significantly and since we're in the Land of the Budget Crisis (CA) I've had to pay very steep fee increases for school. So just understand that it's not as easy as I'd like it to be. We're kind of stuggling all around in every aspect.

I know it's our fault for not looking at our roommate and his dog more closely, and I'm trying to take the initiative to fix the problem now. I'm picking up as many extra hours I can at work and am taking less classes to lessen my load at school, but can only do so much on my own.

I figure now that this board will offer the best advice, as all of you have the most experience and offer very valuable input. I apologize for the length of my post and want you all to know that I really, truly appreciate anything you can offer. I'm doing my best but definitely couldn't do it without the help of the people here.

What is the situation during the day when the humans are gone? Where is your dog and where is the roommate's dog?

We usually just leave them together. They get along really well. I've considered crating Conan though when we're gone because our roommate has left the trash cupboard open more than once, and both dogs get into the trash. We've talked to him about it but he generally doesn't care.

Our roommate's dog is (we think) a pit bull/daschund mix and he and Conan are almost exactly the same size. If they weren't both long backed, short legged dogs I wouldn't feel as comfortable leaving them together.

First, about the trash being accessible and the other dog pretty much allowed to dumpster-dive : that's dangerous. You need to insist on changing that.



Your BF is home most of the time? Who does the dog's basic ob, etc.?

What is the extent of the dog's exercise? And how much marker work are you doing with him? How many short sessions per day, say?

Is he not walked at all in daylight hours? If not, then do you actually have any comparison between his confidence during the day and at night? (That is, is this maybe just a confidence issue, period, unrelated to nighttime?)

We've been pretty insistent, so he either doesn't get it or doesn't care. He feeds his dog crap in a bag, so I think he just doesn't care. He just "forgets." I think it's not hard to remember to close a cabinet door, but whatever. It doesn't help that our roommate is vegan, so not only do the dogs get into other junk in the trash, the majority of it is soy based products. So for now I like to crate him when I know our roommate will be the last to leave the house.

Conan gets two walks during the daytime. We only walk him at night if we had to miss a daytime walk (more often since my knee injury) or if we didn't have very much time to give him some other form of exercise (ie. fetch at the park), or if it's really hot. It's been in the mid to high 90's but is cooling down now. The walks are just over a mile. Last night though we went for about two and a half miles because it was pretty cool outside and I was feeling good, and he was doing really well. He heels well during the day, and mostly at night unless he's startled, then he'll start to pull afterwards, I think because he's trying to get away from whatever scared him.

My BF does most of the obedience work, and if you remember from my last post, it's very basic right now. He does 10 minute sessions three times a day for now. Those are with the markers. Should we do more?

One of those trashcans with a step on lever where the lid goes down automatically might be a wise investment.
They are expensive for a trash can but really help to keep dumpster divers at bay.

We had to put a toilet lock on ours though because he figure out how to work it....but a corgi is short enough that shouldn't be a problem.