Puppy/Dog Socialization

Within my own personal experience with my own puppies since the early 1990’s I have learned to continue learning. My first pup, STORM, was not socialized (as per puppy socialization period) at all. He lived in the country and was exposed to country things (walks in the woods, cows, and other animals like cats, campfires with a few friends, my parents, and an occasional trip to the vet or a walk off the property.) He was neutered at age 9 months. At age 11 months I began taking private lessons with a local instructor to get more control of my 125 pound boy. He was extremely friendly to mostly all strangers and would lick them to death, if permitted! Because of his overly friendly nature (I consider this his temperament) I had a hard time teaching him to pay attention to me in the company of people and other dogs in training classes. He never cared about other dogs at all, but any person was his only focus, to get attention and be permitted to lick them wet! So, we started private lessons with a Rottweiler trainer/breeder and little by little I got STORM’S attention. Enough so, that within less then 2 years of training classes and lessons, he went from 0 titles to a CD and CDX with Cycle Regional scores and competed in the Cycle Regional Championships in Open. He was just 3 ½ by then.
My second pup was NIMBO. He was trained by me from the moment I got my little bugger. He went to training classes with Storm and just observed from his crate. By age 6 months he competed in his first obedience “match” and did extremely well. He had what I considered medium socialization. He never played with any other pups, or went to puppy class, but accompanied me and Storm to classes weekly, obedience trials and match shows pretty regularly. He was also friendly with people and didn’t care too much about other dogs. He was kept in tact his whole life. He had (again) what I considered a good temperament. But not because of socialization created by me or life. I just “think” his parents and grandparents had good temperaments. To be honest I really don’t know but am assuming his breeding was from good temperaments. (Because of the friendliness and stability both Storm and Nimbo showed throughout their entire lives) By age 3 Nimbo had earned his CD w/ dog world scores and by age 4 he had a CDX. I never had any incidents with either Storm or Nimbo in the company of other dogs or people or any situations. I felt and still feel blessed with these two Rottweiler teachers!
My third obedience pup came to me in an Australian Cattle Dog pup body! I had no experience with this breed, compared DRIZZLE to my Rottweilers for nearly 5 years of his life, was frustrated with him and finally accepted that he was NOT a Rottweiler…….! Drizzle was socialized a lot from the moment I got him. I also trained him extensively from the moment I got him. He learned to do a “go- out” as his first training discipline. He went to work with me daily and at that time I was a manager for a Golden Retriever hobby breeder, so he was around the adult dogs and litters of Golden pups for the first 2 years of his life. He was also my training companion during all of my obedience classes that I taught at my school in New Hope PA. He didn’t, however, ever attend obedience classes elsewhere outside my own property/and/or training sessions with other people. Drizzle was a typical ACD, now that I know the breed. LOL! He was smart, willing, bid-able, energetic, crazy, my Velcro companion, loyal, and obedient. (Once I learned to understand him and give him the amount of physical and mental stimulation he needed) Whew! By age 3 Drizzle began to display fear aggressive behavior if confronted with any dog too close to his space. He didn’t outwardly seek out other dogs for confrontation, but if another dog got too close for his comfort, he would lash out. I was extremely confused with this behavior, because, first, I had never had a dog that acted this way, and second because I had thought, I had socialized him plenty during his early years. I still think this is part of his temperament and not so much about socialization or lack thereof. Also, he did have what he considered a traumatic event that occurred during a fear period (5 months). Could this have caused his fear issues? Possibly.
Once I realized what I was dealing with, and learned my position better, I was able to help Drizzle know that I would always protect him, and would not put him in a position he felt threatened in. He had trouble doing stays with strange dogs, but eventually with a lot practice, classes and showing Drizzle I would always protect him, he totally learned to trust me and was able to earn CD, CDX and 7th place All Star Open and his UD. He was also ranked in the top ten for scores and placements, as were both Storm and Nimbo!
My fourth obedience pup DUSK, also an Australian Cattle Dog, was the first pup I ever attended puppy school with. I felt it was a great experience, providing it’s the right kind of puppy class. This particular class was instructional, rather then a run-amuck puppy play session! It was good for all the pups of all sizes and breeds and Dusk at age 15 weeks graduated the class, being the star of the class. (I’m blushing) His temperament is one of confidence, happy, energetic, extremely bid-able, intelligent, high drive, friendly, in tact male, and is a dog I consider neutral with other dogs no matter how badly they behave. He was my assistant with all of my classes, as well as accompanied and assisted me when I taught puppy classes outside the home. He was also socialized well, but a little differently then Drizzle. He went lots of places, including occasional training classes and shows too. So, is he an example of perfect socialization? Or is this once again good temperament? I have never seen Dusk act aggressively, fearfully, or unstable. However, if confronted with a bold obnoxious dog, he would certainly stand up for himself. And that is what I would expect out of any dog.
So, looking back at the first four puppies that I have raised, socialized (however much or little) a common bond would be that all of them, attended some type of training class fairly regularly for several years. Not necessarily a puppy class, but just ordinary obedience-type classes. And these classes were outside the home environment. And, they accompanied me during any lessons or classes I taught at my own place.
Next up is my fifth obedience pup, RAIN, my newest RottNweiler! He was socialized more extensively then any other pup. He met 200 people in his first couple of weeks with me, and met probably 100 different pups, dogs, etc during the first couple of weeks. He was also in 3-5 classes a week here with me at my dog sports center. This type of socialization continued from 9 weeks old to about 11 months old. He was also taken to pet stores (ones that sell toys/food/etc…not puppies) and was exposed to as much as I thought he would experience in his life during the first 16 weeks of his life.
Then, at age 11 months old, he had a conflicting experience with a loose dog in one of our classes that charged him while he was doing a down. Apparently this experience made him feel threatened by certain dogs. Understandably. However, I tried not to put too much worry into it, thinking he had had LOTS of socialization and had met and even played with lots of other puppies and nice adult dogs, for most of his first 11 months.
To describe Rain’s temperament I would say he is slightly aloof when meeting new people but warms up really quickly. He doesn’t approach new people with a bold appeal or tail up but slinkier like and then is gently affectionate with people. If he sees something weird or unusual outside in our yard, or on a walk, he will slink up to see what it is (actually he is using his nose) and then he is fine. With people he knows and of course I am present, he is very affectionate and friendly, but in a gentle kind of “leaning” way. Yes, I know professionals consider leaning dominance. But I prefer gentle leaning and a sweet dog to any other jumping up, out of control behavior! He has a high drive and loves to work is extremely bid-able and highly intelligent, and can be just plain goofy and playful. I personally think his issue with certain other dogs is more of a fear based issue, a lack of confidence, perhaps stemming from his frightening dog charge experience at a “fear” period, and I personally think who he is, is mostly his temperament. Reason for this deduction; he was socialized incredibly well and thorough well into 11 months of age, well passed socialization period. However, another thought is that the only training classes he ever attended were here on our property, so for him, training and working is comfortable here in this environment. He does train w/ me outside the home/property/school and I can get him to pay attention easily and he stays engaged for quite a long period of time for a young in tact male dog. But as far as his comfort-zone, at this point, I doubt he would be feeling cool and collected indoors at other training facilities. This is something he needs exposure too, in small, easy increments over a period of time. Especially since I do want him to follow in all of my previous dogs paw-steps! And he is so fun to work with, and is so well educated.
So; socialization; is it important? I would have to say….absolutely. But does it assure a stable, balanced temperament? No. I think a stable, balanced temperament comes from mostly genetics and somewhat from socialization.
Thoughts, comments, questions, etc, welcome!!!!!!! St.munchkins@verizon.net

It may be. Or maybe not.

 Quote: Jill Marie Fernando

.... Thoughts, comments, questions ....

Paragraphs!

Or in this case, chapters! Please!

The pups individual temperament/personality define how the socialization may/should be attempted.
And what one wants from the dog after puppyhood plays a part as well in what the dog is exposed to early on.

Aah, anyone up for a nature vs nurture debate...er discussion?
I'll play later on tonight.

I'll see your nature vs nurture and raise you a real vs sport.

Way TOO long to read.,..only read the last couple of sentences.... Genetics do play a part...but there are a few dogs that can do fine with limited socialization, but most do better with lots more. I always opt for tons of it...the weirder the better. I had a pup that by genitics should have been a really nice dog that was a very fearful dog inspite of all that I did with him. He could not possibly have been socialized more then he was. (& NOT flooded) He went to work with me everyday for 6 months from 8 weeks old & everywhere else that I went. He was still terrified of everything & fearful aggressive toward most people that even came close to his bubble. So much for genitics & socialization. The major window of socialization closes at 12-14 weeks. Socialization after this time if still effective, but not as much so, as the earlier timeframe. JMO

Game's on.
What side you want?

I'll take nurture & sport.

Kay,
So you want to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
I'm listening.

I think genetics are number 1. Socialization and training number 2.
You would have to work a bit to mess up a tempermentally sound dog. Even then, IF the temperment is really there, you can bring back some of what was messed up.
On the other hand, you can "avoid" problems in a less then sound dog with good socialization and training but stress will always bring out the dog's real nature. How much depends on the individual dog of course.