Hi Everyone,

After my husband (finally) took the time to research along with me, we have made the decision to switch Cali to a raw diet. For one, I am tired of her ongoing poop issues that come and go. Secondly--call it a gut feeling (HAHA!), but something is just not right. I am sure it's the diet, and already feel she will do much better on raw.

That said, I wanted to ask all of you how you reconcile the ongoing dangerous quality of our food supply and feeding raw. I know about the dog's gut processing much differently than ours, and about their ability to handle pathogens. BUT, the New York Times and Consumer Reports have reported that that 80% of Tyson chicken is contaminated. You buy Tyson chicken, and guaranteed you are feeding your dog contaminants. The ground beef supply in this country is truly dangerous, and I encourage YOU not to eat it unless it comes from your local CSA. Factory farming gives us beef and pork that is sketchy at best. A couple of articles are linked below. There are millions of reports, as I am sure you all know.

I am VERY active in movements to promoting safer food. I am working out a supply of raw food for Cali with my CSA. I can't get everything from them, and realistically one just has to rely on the grocery store.

Please don't anyone bite my head off. I am reading and researching and learning and trying to bounce things that niggle around in my head with those who have a great deal of experience. Please share your opinion on the issue of food safety and the huge amount of contaminants that are simple a reality in our food supply. There's lots of wisdom here. Thanks very much.

Linda

http://bites.ksu.edu/news/137149/09/11/30/us-consumer-reports-two-thirds-chickens-tested-harbor-dangerous-bacteria

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/31/us/31meat.html

http://documents.nytimes.com/food-safety-documents/page/37#p=1

I think you're a smart lady to do the research and become comfortable before diving in. Good for you.

I feed raw and observe nothing more than ordinary kitchen hygiene when I'm handling the dogs' food. If you are already handling meat in your kitchen (you don't say you are a vegetarian) then you already have the skills to handle raw meat for dogs.

Come to think of it, even vegetables require intelligent kitchen hygiene. Kale is filthy.

If you feel strongly about "factory farmed" meats, you could feed your dog organic meat--or meat from a local farmer you know, etc. You don't HAVE to feed your dog on bulk chicken parts. Many of us do simply because it's cheap. But everyone's conscience and pocketbook are their own.

I, myself, don't worry a bit about bacterial contamination on meat for the dogs. A healthy dog can handle it. Their short GI tract and battery-acid stomach were designed for exactly that. Wild dogs would thrive on far worse carcasses than I purchase neatly wrapped in plastic and served to them in a clean stainless steel bowl.

Kibble is also loaded with bacteria, especially a large bag that sits around for a while.

But I do get your additional concerns about the ethics of factory farming. That's its own issue for anyone who buys food at grocery stores--for themselves or their dogs. I assume those who choose not to buy factory farmed food for themselves would/might/could choose the same for their pets.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

... But I do get your additional concerns about the ethics of factory farming. That's its own issue for anyone who buys food at grocery stores--for themselves or their dogs. I assume those who choose not to buy factory farmed food for themselves would/might/could choose the same for their pets.

I buy all humanely raised and slaughtered organic chicken. I personally don't eat meat, which is fortunate because I couldn't afford this meat for the dogs and myself. But I want to say that I agree with Tracy on the issue of pathogens. The dogs' exposure to pathogens would not be why I won't buy Tyson products.

Over a lot of years (mumble-mumble-two years come March ), I've never personally known a dog with a salmonella or e.coli illness from raw, but have known several who were sickened by kibble.

I am definitely not saying that dogs don't get sick from raw-food pathogens. They can and they do. They get sick from kibble too.

How many kibbles use meat ingredients that are organic or humanely raised? (It's an honest question, I know very little about kibble brands.) But if one is concerned about the quality of meat offered for people to eat after federal inspection, I wonder about the quality of meat that is delivered to kibble factories?

I've been vegetarian for longer than I've known how to cook (or make anything other than a PB&J) so switching my dogs to raw was extremely scary to me. Although I am a bit of a germ freak, and handling the raw meat makes me gag a little bit, I have yet to get sick. And I'm pretty meat-related food safety inept. I just wash everything it touches. Sometimes twice, if I'm feeling uncomfortable about the first wipe down. My hands are not pleased and I've been using a lot more lotion, haha!

That said, I recently switched Conan to a raw diet as well. It's been about half a week. He is my dog who possibly has IBD, and had an alarming amount of helicobacter gastritis in his gut when he had his endoscopy done. He's had intermittent diarrhea his entire life. We went through limited ingredient diets, a hydrolyzed protein diet, but it was never normal. We also did a 30 day antibiotic and Flagyl treatment. About the 27th day through we ran out of the hyrdolyzed protein z/d food our vet was insisting on us trying, so I started him on THK and chicken backs (with salmon oil and vitamin e).

Guess what? It's been the most normal stools I have ever seen out of this dog. They are practically picture perfect. Even on the meds and z/d food his stools weren't truly solid, but a little creamy (sorry I know that sounds awful) but I can't emphasize the difference we have seen. His last day of meds was Tuesday, so I'm hoping that these amazing results follow through for the rest of his life. I swear, his poops are so normal I could cry.

I hope that helps. I really think that a raw diet will be the right thing for Cali. It is expensive (with the THK and chicken from Whole Foods) but it's so worth it and I can't ever imagine feeding them anything else.

Human food safety is a big part of life around here. My house mate is actually the county health inspector so in the beginning when he saw me literally toss a half a cornish game hen outside on to the lawn for the dog to eat a fit was thrown. Now I wash my hands each time after I throw poultry on the lawn for the lab.

Dogs are a lot tougher than we give them credit for. Special interests have thrown down so many scare tactics over the years to scare us into feeding our dogs highly processed kibble made of lord knows what, which came from where, hopefully without lord knows what cleaner being applied in the process that it's amazing we can function at all without rubber matting the walls and wearing crash test helmets after getting out of bed in the morning or putting the dog's feet in ziploc bags.

So we practice safe food handling for people, we wash the stainless steel dishes after each use, we wash the cutting boards with bleach water after cutting up meals, we clean up and throw out leftovers of anything that the dogs don't eat. Not because the dogs can't handle it but because the people living here would be at risk.

As far as processors, so long as the processor is inspected I'm not too worried about it where it concerns the dogs, i've seen a dog eat off of a two week old summer roadkill deer and be alright.

Much ado about nothing! Healthy dogs have no problems with the raw meat. I'd be far more concerned about feeding kibble & the crap meat the goes into many of the different brands with the exception of a few.

My dogs get TYSON chicken backs if I run out of my 'restaraunt wholesale' supplies & can't get there for a few days or week. They have been eating Tyson backs on & off for the last week until I made my supplier run today. And they are just fine!

If worried about the contamination on your kitchen countrers, cutting boards etc...use one of the many kitchen sprays or wipes that clean & kill 99% of the bacteria. I use one of the sprays & then rinse off with clear hot water. Boards & cutting utensils go into the dishwasher. I have been doing this for years & I am perfecty fine. In most casey hot soapy water is sufficient.

I wear a pair of rubber gloves when I break down the meat for Nico, as well as when I clean the kitchen after getting it all prepared. I also feed her in the kitchen where the floor can be sanitized and use a big placemat under her plate.

The gloves save my hands from all the washing, especially since I probably wash them 30 times a day at work.

I love the Clorox anywhere spray for sanitizing, it does the job without the awful bleach smell.

I'm devouring every word. (Seems today is my day for bad puns! )

So even if your dog is consuming, on a daily basis, raw chicken that has been shown to be 80% contaminated with bacteria on a daily basis there has been no problem for any of you? That is completely reassuring if that's the case.

Good point about the quality of meat in the kibble, and bacteria therein for other reasons as well. Very sound point.

For the record, I'm a total omnivore so I have no problem with meat eating by any creature. That you all so very much already!

 Quote: Linda Patch

So even if your dog is consuming, on a daily basis, raw chicken that has been shown to be 80% contaminated with bacteria on a daily basis there has been no problem for any of you? That is completely reassuring if that's the case.

Unless the dog is severely immune compromised or has a gastric issue I can't see a problem. Wild dogs and wolves eat things in conditions far less favorable than our pets, and eat leftovers from those things with no refrigeration for days afterwords. A healthy dog is a protein processing machine. As much as we change the outward appearances through selective breeding for the most part the interior guts of all canines are about the same.

BTW the dog that ate the two week old roadkill was my brother's. Didn't even so much as have a case of gas afterwords.